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Scottish Club Football achievements not including the Old Firm (No offence I like the Old Firm)

As a Scottish football fan, I support the Old Firm in Europe, and are proud of them as institutions and their acheivements, but here is a page on Scottish clubs other than Old Firm, including defeats and victories over the Old Firm, by Scottish clubs. This is as I am a fan of a different Scottish team to either Rangers or Celtic, and to be fair am happy when a Scottish team beats them, as it makes the league seem even better, and is good fun and exciting.

Defeats of Old Firm

Defeats of Scotland's biggest teams, by Scotland's other teams., and their achievements across the world,

Great Moments that prove the Old Firm, are not unbeatable, in any way to end of May 2024

62 Scottish Cups have not been won by the Old Firm, plus 101 Runner ups,

29 League Cups, with 54 Runner ups, Plus 1 Southern League Cup victory that was a national Trophy that season, the forerunner to the competition, 

19 League Titles, 59 Runner ups, and 94 third places,

1 European Cup Winners Cup, Aberdeen 1983.

3 World Club Championships (See below), Renton, Hibs and Hearts, 1 Runner ups and  1 International Challenge Match / world cup runner up see Aston Villa game, , 

1 Championship of the United Kingdom, 

1 Uefa Cup Runner Up, Dundee United,

1 European Super Cup, Aberdeen,

1 English London Charity Shield (Forerunner of the charity shield) (Shared), Queens Park,

2 English Cup Runners Up, Queens Park,

4 Scottish Inter City League's out of 5 finished ones, 

1 Scottish Victory Cup and 2 Runner ups, re WW1, (One off) became a two off as of WW2. 

And 1 unofficial Spanish cup, in the 1920s, Motherwell. 

And 1 Isle of Man trophy them again, 

And 1 USA Championship Runner up, plus Eastern Division Champions, and a Eastern Divsion Third place, 

1 And one more Southern Regional League runner up, when it was effectively the national league, at the end of  WW2 and a 3rd place, (One off in the sense of it being national).

You could also class a play off between the 1940 war emergency league west v east as a runner up in the Scottish War Emergency League, Play off as a minor trophy runner up,  and the national league proper lasted 5 games, with non old Firm teams taking 2nd and 3rd. But most 1940s leagues were regionalised into 2 groups and worse than that were disrupted massively by the war, in terms of who could play for each team,  to a extent they are not really even minor trophies in a way, but they were successes for whoever won them, but not the same kind of comps as before.

Plus 1 Coronation Cup effectively a British Cup, Runner up, to Celtic,  (One off) and 1 Mungo Cup, a 1950s extra Scottish Cup, runner up, (One off) 2 1960s Summer Cup and Summer Cup runner ups (Two off), (No Rangers and Celtic in these Summer Cups, unlike other minor trophies I think, the top 3 comps, the 2 cups and top tier, and European trophies, are the major competitions) )  4 Dryborough Cups, and 1 runner up out of 6, and 1 runner up, and 1 Anglo-Scottish Cup, and 3 Runner ups out of 10. of this 1970s, to 1980, trophy, and 7 Tennent's Sixes out of 10, plus 10 runner ups,  In the Southern League, 4 out of 5 Summer Cups were won by Non Old Firm teams, and 3 Runner ups, were non Old Firm. Hibs also beat Rangers 8 -1 in a wartime game. Though Rangers were the dominant side in the war. 

And 1 and a half Anglo Scottish Challenge Cups

1 Anglo - Franco - Scottish Friendship cup, (Non old firm teams did it) 

1 Super unofficial Anglo Scottish floodlit league, out of 3, 

Rangers record defeat is 10-2 to Airdrie in 1886.

Celtic's record defeat 8-0 to Motherwell 1937

Humiliating defeats

Berwick Rangers 1 Glasgow Rangers 0 ex-Scottish territory, where a large amount of the people claim to be as Scottish as English, defeat Rangers in shock result.

Celtic 1 Inverness Caledonian Thistle 3 sees Celtic lose great player, as manager in 2000 when Caley were a 2nd tier team, united together from Caledonian and Inverness Thistle less than 10 years before.

1897 Arthurlie 4 Celtic 2 Non league beats league,

1987 Hamilton 1 Rangers 0, Shock as high spending Gers, lose to part timers in Cup

Rangers lowest League position is sixth, once in the 1920s, and a number of times they have been fifth, once in the 1890s, once in the nineteen sixties, once in 1980, and once in eighty six the same decade. Of course when they were demoted due to financial debates, they were top of the 4th tier, then top of the 3rd tier, then only 3rd in the 2nd tier behind a shock relegation of Hearts and Hibs, who finished above them, with them beating Hibs in the play offs behind champions Hearts and though losing to Motherwell to keep them down  a season longer, and then going up the next season top of the league. With the Dons ahead of them in the top tier the next 2 seasons.

Celtic's lowest position was just as remarkable. Before 1940, Celtic's lowest position was fifth in 1911, and 1903, the 1940 season was uncompleted.

Straight after WW2 Celtic had a poor time, and many other teams won trophies, indeed 7th, 12th, then sixth and fifth, saw Celtic worse than fifth 8 times till sixty five, indeed having a minor flirt with relegation in the early part. Strangely just like how the early 80s was a bad era for Rangers and they still won trophies, the Celtic team still won trophies in this era, even a league, despite only finishing in the top 2 twice. Then it was 9 in a row, fifth in 78, fifth in 1990, but since sixty five, they have finished out the top 3 just 4 times, and even 3rd and 4th were rarities. In the 1980s Rangers did complete a period of finishing out of the top tier top 2 for 7 seasons, whereas their demotion era was just six seasons. There was a period of five seasons where they were out of the top 2 in the 1900s, but other than that, they were as top 2 as Celtic. Before the 2010s it must be said Rangers and Celtic had spent their whole eras in the top tier. It is this domination that makes it a experience and fun when a other Scottish team beat them, it's like the U2 song Can't live with or without you, Most non old firm fans would hate to admit, it, but rivalries are what makes football great, and so it can be part of the fun, along with supporting your own team, and really just hoping Scotttish teams win in Europe. Scottish football is not just the Old Firm, but they add to it and the tension. Just like Hearts Aberdeen, Hibs and Dundee United, then the next level of teams, it is all these teams that make it a fun league.

The Old Firm add to Scottish Football in being somebody to beat, in a League with more team kit colours per team than most leagues, None of the Big 6 sides, have the same colour or pattern shirt.

There is no doubt non-old Firm, teams, have achieved more in club football, than the Old Firm, especially when including freindlies,

Rangers # Record defeat: 2–10 (against Airdrieonians, Friendly, 6 February 1886).
Rangers # Record league defeat: 0–6 (against Dumbarton, 4 May 1892).
Rangers # Record Scottish Cup defeat: 0–6 (against Aberdeen, 10 April 1954).

Celtic # Record defeat (all): 0-8 against Motherwell in 1937.
Celtic # Record defeat (home): 0-5 against Hearts in 1895.
Celtic # Record defeat (post war home): 1-5 Aberdeen 1947.

List of World Club Champions, Scotland did well in, weltpokal in german, Pucharu Interkontynentalnego in Polish, Including the first ones in the 19thC, to June 2006.

1883 Dumbarton 6 Blackburn Olympic 1 and Blackburn Olympic 4 Dumbarton 3, for the UK Championship. 

1887 Aston Villa 3 Hibs 0, tagged by some as world championship, asterix, others as a "Great International Match".. 

1887 Hibernian 2 Preston North End 1, tagged as the World Championship, Massive asterix, 

1888 Renton 4 West Brom 1 Become world champions, first fairly official world champions. 

1901 Tottenham Hotspur 0 Hearts 0 1902 Hearts 3 Tottenham Hotspur 1 Hearts become World Champions "world championship", though this was between the two cup winners, so in a sense, less a world championship, than a world cup winners cup,

Of course Celtic played in one in the sixties,

You could even say Sunderland beat Hearts in a match in 1895 tagged as a world championship, so Hearts World Champs runner up, that was 2 league winners, and Rangers and Celtic as Cup and league winners in the 1890s had claims at times for these sorts of titles, but they in the main were just matches that coincidently were being played between winners of leagues and cups, not really also being labelled as world titles. 

Queens Park did beat the FA Cup holders, in friendlies, on 3 occasions, before the leagues started and Vale of Leven did twice, but there is no evidence these were regarded as world title run offs, 

 

The 2 1887 events claimed as world titles, have asterixis beside. It seems the local media in Birmingham claimed to some extent the Birmingham match was a de facto world title. But the Scottish media had not stated that was the case. So this could be claimed to be similar to the Queens Park wins, against FA Cup winners, that could only be called a world cup after the event, which is not really official. But it seems unfair to take away Aston Villa very respectable and reasonable claim, as their media was saying it which seems pretty fair. But the Hibs 1887 win, meanwhile was billed officially as the Association Football championship of the world, odd when Aston Villa were Cup Holders, but there seems to be some idea that both the FA and SFA had nominated them for it, but I only see that on blogs so am unsure about that. So both have a fair argument to be world championships. To be fair, it is possible you could say the Renton win was the first ever real planned world title between 2 cup winners. It was thought this would be Renton V the Preston invincibles, but West Brom won the cup so played instead. Which indicates it was a proper tournament. The Renton game was even played at a neutral venue at a neutral ground, with the Hibs match only given the title world championships, in Edinburgh after it was arranged. With little agreement that the Aston Villa match was anything other than a International challenge match. So it is fair to claim Renton were the first world champions. Then again some claim the FA and SFA arranged the idea to have the Hibs Preston match as a world match. I think it is reasonable to claim it was the first ever world championship as well, as the friendly was called that before the game, not after. Some claim it was a advertising ploy, but in all fairness why dont they have the right to claim that, as nobody else had done that before, and actually the 2 teams were great teams, Hibs as Scottish Cup holders, and Preston as previous season FA Cup semi finalists, it was not like 2 rubbish teams, but Preston were also seen as a top side, as they were that year starting a 42 game winning run, which included friendlies and cups. Including a 26 0 record victory in the FA Cup over Hyde the month after the Hibs match.  In a sense you could claim Hibs seeing the tie had been agreed had a right to invent this title for a trophy like this as Preston had a argument to being the best in England. 

http://www.scottishsporthistory.com/uploads/3/3/6/0/3360867/the_championship_of_the_world.pdf 

Other big matches include

1983 Aberdeen 2 Real Madrid 1 Aberdeen Win the European Cup Winners Cup

1983 SV Hamburg 0 Aberdeen 0 Sup[er Cup 1st leg, 

1983 Aberdeen 2 SV Hamburg 0, Aberdeen lift the Super Cup

1987 IFK Gothenberg 1 Dundee United 0 Uefa Cup Final 1st leg, 

1987 Dundee United 1 IFK Gothenburg 1, they draw their home match so lose 2-1 in Uefa Cup,

Then in terms of other matches

Well first of all, Queens Park, have also reached 2 FA cup semi finals, on top of the two where they reached the final.

Record Scottish wins in Fa Cup Cliftonville 0 Partick 11 , and Crewe 0 Queens Park 10, and Queens Park 15 Manchester 0 , all in the 19th Century, most notable result Queens Park six Aston villa one, Scottish teams stopped entering in late 19th century.


Plus in tours notable results include,
Aberdeen beat Krakov 9 to 1 in the 1910s, (Poland who have reached World Cup Semi finals, on occasions, had not started football as early as Scotland), but beat Slava Prague in same tour. and a 1920s Ferencváros, and a 1920s Leipzig. Then Cape Town Select and a South  Africa select in the 1920s, and Viking Stavenger six one in the 1930s,  and a Copenhagen select, and in the 1930s, Western Province of South  Africa, Southern Transvaal, and South Africa twice,
Airdieonians also beat a Copenhagen select and Banks of Dee, Aberdeen Junior team beat Brann Bergen, in the 1920s,
Cowdenbeath lost by just 1 to 0 to a German Olympic select in 1928, Dumbarton beat IFK Gothernurg in 1922, Dundee beat Madrid, Bilbao and Valencia in 1923, and Barcelona, Madrid and Deportiva La Coruna in 1924, Glasgow Uni drew with ajax in 19 twenty five, while Hearts beat a Danish select in the 1910s, Hibs beat Rapid Vienna in the 1920s,
Motherwell beat Swansea Town in the 1920s, plus Madrid (for a unoffical Copa Del Rey) and Celta Vigo,  then a Selecta in Argentina of Rosario, a weakened Argentina select, a combined weakened Uruguay Argentinian select, a interior league select, Penarol, and got a draw with a Rio De Janeiro select, then in the 1930s beat A Antwerp select, and beat 2 of the best Paris teams, and Liege select, while Queens Park drew with a Danish select in the 1900s, and beat Grasshoppers, and Aik Stockholm in the  1920S, and a Danish select, even Raith beat a Copenhagen select in the 1920s, Saint Mirren, beat Notts County in the 1920s, and Santander and Gijon, A Scottish junior league select beat Brann Bergen in the 1920s, While Third Lanark, beat a Lisbon select in the 1910s, Benfica, a Porto select, and Vigo, then in the 1920s a pile of North Ameircan cities from Canada to the USA, including Bethelehem Steel, and New York Celtics. Then in the 1920s, they beat a Argentinian and a Uruguayan select, there were lots of friendly wins in the 19th Century by the lieks of Queens Park over English teams and vice Versa.

Then in terms of other honours, the Scottish minor Inter cities football league, competed in by the big cities of the central belt was won by Hearts twice and Third Lanark once of the 4 times it was completed. A Scottish Victory cup was competed in the 1910s, at the end of WW1, with no Scottish cup, so this was it really, it won by St Mirren over Hearts, also Hibs were runners up in a 1940s Scottish Victory cup, and one Southern Regional League, the season it was effectively a national league, with Aberdeen third, the league had been split into a north and south, during the war and the teams before that season were muddled by war call ups, so players from all over the place played everywhere. Also Aberdeen won the Southern League cup, the season it was a back to normal for the players really, post war national competition, before the proper unification,
In the fifties Hibs were runners up in the Coronation cup which was effectively a elite British cup, and Aberdeen were runners up in the Mungo cup effectively a extra elite Scottish cup for the season,
Hibs in the sixties won a Summer cup, a very minor trophy for top teams, with Aberdeen runner up, plus Aberdeen in the same decade with the British,   arrival in North America competed in a US soccer league, the merged USA Championship, and were runners up, as Washington's team. plus also winning the the Atlantic division, Eastern division, which had Hibs in 3rd place, but Dundee United were bottom in the west, In the 1969 NASL international Cup Dundee United were 3rd, out of 6th, and Kilmarnock bottom, but noth had 2 wins. 

Of the six times the Dryborough Cup, a well sponsored national cup comp for elite Scottish teams was competed in, in the 1970s, Aberdeen won it twice and Hibs twice.

In the 1970s the Anglo Scottish cups occurred even with Irish teams for half of it, in a British Isles Texaco cup, but only for teams not in Europe, and Scottish teams of the 11 times it was competed in, it was won just once by Scots with St Mirren, but had 1 Runner up with them as well, and another with Hearts, and another with Airdrieonians.

Of Scotland; indoor 1980s football tournament the Tennents sixes, of the 10 times it was competed in, Aberdeen won twice, Hearts twice, Partick once, Hibs once and Dundee once, with Dundee, Morton, Motherwell (Thrice), Hearts, St Mirren (Twice) St Johnstone and Airdrieonians making up the Runner ups,  

Then of the Scottish Challenge Cup the Scottish national trophy started in the 1990s, for teams below the top tier, up till 2020 when I wrote this, the Old Firm, have competed in it just a few times as a senior team (Rangers) , and a few times as a Youth team, but only the other Scottish teams have won it, other than one win by Rangers, and one Runner up, for them V Raith, and that despite from the late 2010s, the top 2 Welsh league, inlcluding TNS, and also Northern Irish league, teams competing, for a few years, and for 2 seasons, 2 English fifth tier teams, including Wrexham once, and a few seasons, 2 Republic of Irish league teams competing, and on only 1 occasion did a Welsh team reach the final, on no other occasion did a team outside Scotland reach the final, even Berwick. 

Also in Europe, Hibs have had 1 European Cup Quarter and then Semi final, and 1 European Cup Winners Cup Quarter Final, Kilmarnock 1 Fairs Cup Quarter then semi final, Dundee have reached 1 European Cup Quarter then Semi Final, and 1 Fairs Cup Quarter then Semi Final, While Dunfermline have reached 2 European Cup Winners Cup Quarter Finals, then 1 Semi Final, and 1 Fairs Cup Quarter Final,  while Aberdeen have had 1 European Cup Quarter Final, 2 European Cup Winners Cup Quarter Finals, and 2 following Semi Finals. While Dundee United have had 3 Uefa Cup Quarter Finals, then 2 semi final placings, and 1 European Cup Quarter Final followed by a Semi Final. Plus Hearts have had a European Cup Winners Cup Quarter Final. 

Top results for these teams in Europe include other than priorly stated, include the Dons beating Reykavik 10 1 in sixty seven, a record win for a non old firm, Scottish team in Europe, plus Standard Liege, and Real Zaragoza, but losing to both on Agg as of defeats, the same against Honved, in the 1970s, drawing with Tottenham, but going well out on Agg, a lose and a win v Dusseldorf, a lose and draw v Frankfurt, agains knocked out both times, knocking out Autria Vienna after win and draw in the 1980s,  knocking out Ipswich in the 1980s Uefa Cup after a draw and win, the many times winners that decade. a win and knocked out by lose to Sv Hamburg in that comp, crushing Sion 7 0 in 1982, ECWC, and best of all a draw then win v Bayern Munich, and a win five 1 and draw over Waterschi of Belgium, in the semi, a lose and win the next season over the Hungarian cup winners the next season, a lose and win against Dynamo Berlin in the European Cup, knocked out, and then in late 80s a knock out lose and win v Feyonoord, then more recently knocking Dnipro out of the Europa League, in the 2000s, and holding Bayern Munich to a draw in the 1st leg, then being crushed and knocked out by, after a 4 0 defeat of Copenhagen, and draw with Lokomotiv Moscow, and more recently still wins over Croatia's best or 2nd best team in the 2010s, Rijeka, and a Dutch team Gronigen, not forgetting in the 1970s a knock out win double over Celta Vigo of Spain, and lose and draw with Juventus, and a draw and defeat in extra time to premiership Burnley in the 2010s, Scottish teams non old firm I mean, have knocked out teams from Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland, Wales, Latvia, Macedonia, Finland, France, Georgia, Luxembourg, Bosnia, Sweden, Liechtenstein, the Faeroe Islands, Romania, Albania, Poland, Cyprus, Lithuania, Ukraine, Estonia, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Malta,  Bulgaria, Andorra, and much much more, like the USSR, as of  Hearts in the early 1990s, via a win and draw over Dnepr,  Plus beat Viking Stavenger in the 2020s, and only lost by 1 goal v Sporting Lisbon,     



Dundee had a   8 1 win over Cologne, in the sixties European Cup, a draw and win over Sporting Lisbon, and double win over Anderlecht, and a draw and defeat with leeds in the late sixties Fairs Cup and both wins and defeats with both Cologne and AC Milan in the 1970s.

Dundee United have had 2 wins over Barca in the sixties fairs cup and 2 again in the 1980s uefa cup, plus a defeat and lose to Juve in the sixties, a big win over Monaco in the 1980s Uefa cup, with a smaller lose, and same so v Borussia Mochengladbach, a knockout win and draw over PSV Eindhoven, and win and draw over Werder Bremen, and Standard Liege and Rapid Vienna, and a defeat and win v Roma in the European Cup Semi final, and draw and knockout defeat v Man Utd, in the 1980s Uefa, a draw and win in the 1980s Uefa Cup over Borussia Mochengladbach again, a draw and lose to Dinamo Buchartest in the late 1980s ECWC, and win on Agg over the great Wroclaw. more recently.
and also more recently drew with and lost to a Turkish team, Trabzonspor, and knocked out France's Lens in the 1980s with a  win and lose,  

While Dunfermline have had,
In the sixties a lose then knock out win over Everton, and almost over Valencia, but a play off knocked them out, this was the famous six 2 comeback over a 4 0 deficit, Barca eclipsed v PSG, but the play off was lost 1 0. they also beat Stuttgart in a win and draw, Zaragoza in a lose and draw, Olympiakos of Pireus, in a win and defeat, West Brom in a win and draw, and all that in the sixties,

Hearts drew with Zaragoza in the sixties, and went out with a win and lose v Bayern in the 1980s, Uefa, and beat Athletico Madrid in the 1990s but went out on Agg after a lose, and went out to Stutgart in the 2000s, despite a lose and win, same with Bordeux, plus beat Sporting Braga, in Uefa, with a win and draw, and beat Basel, and won and got a knock out lose to Zagreb, and in the 2010s, drew and lost to Liverpool, and in the 1990s beat and lost to Bologna, getting knocked out, also in the 1980s they lost to and drew with PSG, And beat Rosenburg in the 2020s. 

Hibs, beat German European cup comptetitors Rot Weiss Essen, and drew to go through in the fifties, and the Swedes, and in the sixties, drew with Barca and beat them in the fairs cup, and drew with Roma, and lose big to Roma. same so to Valencia once, but then also in that comp, won and lost, then lost in a play off, and beat Porto in a win and lose, and lost and beat Napoli, in a knock out lose, and win and drew with Leipzig, and drew and lost with Leeds, and won and lost with SV Hamburg out on away goals, and in the 1970s, won big with a small lose to Sporting Lisbon in ECWC to go through, and had a win and knock out lose to Split, and 2 draws with Leeds, in a knock out, in mid 70s Uefa, beat Rosenburg 9 1 in the 1970s, 2 defeats to Juve, and a win and lose to Liverpool in a knock out by the Kop team, with a win and knock out lose v strasbourg, And beat Luzern in the 2020s 

While Kilmarnock, have had a lose and big five 1 win against Eintracht Frankfurt in the sixties, a draw and big lose to real madrid in the European cup, a win and huge win 7 2 over Antwerp in the fairs cup, a win over Leipzig,  and lose, then a lose and draw with leeds, and a draw iand lose with Nice in the 1990s, Raith of course had their 2 0 and 2 1 defeats to Bayern Munich in the 1990s, a moral victory of sorts as they were leading for a while, in Munich, and beat Norwegian team Brann in the 2020s, while St Mirren beat a Icelandic team. 

While St Johnstone had in the 1970s a lose and then knockout win to get past SV Hamburg, and a lose then draw with Monaco in the 1990s, and a draw and win over Rosenburg in the 2010s, Plus also drew away from home with Galatasaray and Linz in the 2020s

St Mirren had a draw and lose with St Etienne in the 1980s, and lose then win with Slavia Prague, and a draw and lose with mechelen who won the European Cup Winners Cup that season.

Also Inverness drew and lost to a Romanian team in their only 2010s entry in Europe.  

I should add Aberdeen beat Chelsea 4 1 in the 1938 Empire trophy, and Hearts, Brentford 1 0, There were only 4 teams from each nation in the tournament, and Hibs beat Spurs 2 1 after a draw in the couple of decades later Coronation cup, and Hibs beat  Newcastle United 4 0.

 

Also St Mirren 1959 Scottish Cup winners, beat Nottingham Forrest in a Anglo Scottish Challenge Cup, about who was the champion of the FA Cup winners, and drew with Coventry City, in a 1987 event, where the Paisley leg was not occurred as of lack of sponsorship, for 2 teams, less fancied by sponsors, than would have if it were Man Utd v Celtic for example. I would give that as advantage St Mirren, partly on away goals rule, so they can count that as a half. 


 

I must add, Aberdeen and their sixties runner up in the USA position, was along with it a situation where they were top of the so called Eastern Division, they then played Los Angeles Wolves really Wolves and lost six five, aet, which US president LBJ apparently watched, or had a season ticket for.  

There have been many friendlies played by Scottish club sides across the years, and those in the 19th Century would surely have been the equivalent of tests matches, the best challenges of Scottish v English teams, with in later decades Scottish v all sorts of nation's teams. By the late 20th Century a friendly even with a mini tourney could not always be seen as a genuine competitive fixture, but some then, could be seen as fun challenges, but some in earlier 20th century as I say were like test matches. Well Motherwell claim the greatest friendly tour in Scottish football history. The tour of South America where they lost to a number of sides, but also beat some, including a weakened Argentinian select, and a weakened Argentina, Uruguay, a number of league selects, and Penarol. This in the 1920s, and just after a tour of Spain saw a draw with Barcelona, and a win over Real Madrid, in a match over a unofficial Copa del rey. With all those triumphs you could say they should at least be above all the teams who won 1 Scottish Cup that decade. Though Aberdeen also beat South Africa that decade in a tour of there.

Also Inverness Caley and Thistle played as a select team in a friendly in the 1920s v Spurs, and beat them 3 2 yes it was a friendly but they did not have proper cross border tournys much then so maybe it counts more than a pre season friendly. 

So most notable results in late 20th Century were in seventy six, New Zealand lost 3 0 to Hearts, at home, and in 1979 Dundee beat New Zealand 8 1 at home.

Also Hearts drew with South Africa, 3 all in the late fifties, then in the last year as well of that decade, beat Australia, in that land, 7 1, then 7 1, then 8 2, 9 1, and six nil. and 9 0, and New South Wales six one, and also beat Victoria five nil, and Tasmania ten nil, and Western Australia, ten 1, maybe club friendlies no matter but they beat Torpedo Moscow six 1 in 3 years later,

Some say those Aussie matches were just B teams or selects but they could be said to be a team in a way, and many were proper games and teams we believe

Then in the 1970s, Dundee beat Australia B team 2 1,

Hearts beat Barbados 3 1 in the mid 80s, and drew with a Canada select in 1919 Plus they won and lost to South Africa in fifty four,

Also in 1979 Dundee e United beat a Japanese League select 2 0, and Burma 4 0, and Hibs beat Gibraltar 3 1 in 2013, .

It can also be said there were a lot of Scottish clubs touring Europe in the 1900s and 1910s winning by big totals against club sides that have big names now, From Norway to Denmark, to Poland, to Germany to southern Europe, but that is as they had not got started as clubs as early as Britain. But also beat a Sweden and a Denmark select in the 1910s,Plus St Mirren beat a North Spain select  in the 1920s, Plus Third Lanark beat Porto select and Lisbon select in the 1910s, and a Argentina slect I mean select in the 1920s, and a South Argentina select. Plus a Uruguay select.

Did I say a Inverness select beat Tottenham in the 1920s during a political visit,  decades before ICT, and Queen of the South beat Stade Reims, Racing Universitaire d'Alger the French North Africa cup holders, and Racing de Santander, on their way to winning invitation cup in 1930s French Algeria.

Orkney once played Hearts and lost, so a pan Scottish match in the 1970s, St Mirren beat the Isle of Man select, I mean Isle of Man select  five 0 in 1982 for example. one of the British Isles teams.  Shetland has also played the Faeroe Islands, Non Old Firm teams have had Scottish, Northern Irish, Welsh, and English and Irish internationals to name but a few, plus much more, from New Zealand, to Trinidad and Tobago, and the Netherlands, and Scandinavia. and Denmark, never mind Iceland and the Faeroes of course and Canada. Bulgaria and Japan for example, and Georgia, Morocco, and more, like Australia, Shetland won the Island games in 2005 above Aland Isles, Ynys Mon, Greenland, and the Falkland Islands, and Saare County and Guernsey, plus Orkney and Western Isles, Former Scottish territory the Manx won it in 2001, Orkney have beaten the Faeroe Islands, the Western Isles have beaten Gotland, while Shetland have beaten the Faeroes, Gbraltar and Guernsey, Hitra the Manx and Greenland. 

Also a Glasgow select beat London and Sheffield selects a lot of times in the 19th and 20th Century. A nice tradition between the great cities of these three three. 

Also Aberdeen beat Atlanta in a friendly in 2023, and UAE side FC Dibba Al Hisn in 2019, and Bunyodkor of Uzbekistan in 2021. And in the 1970s beat teams from Ecuador, the USA, and Canada, Plus beat Bahia of Brazil twice in 1960, Drew with FRankfurt 1899 in a friendly in 1975, Beat the Irish League eleven in 1946, a Lewis and Harris select in 1996, Kirkwall in 1946, Also Kilmarnock lost to Brazil's Bangi in the 1960s,m after winning a North American friendly tournmanet group stage, of Burnley, Nice, Glenavaov, and Bayern, so were runner up in the final, while Aberdeen lost to Iran;s Persepolis, in the 1970s 2 0 away from home,  while Kilmarnock played America of Rio in the 1960s, and Dundee played Recife, Hearts must have failed to lose to Bahia, Fanously Dundee United toured AFrica, in the 1970s., where they beat the Benin Vipers, and drew with the Stationery Stores, and Mighty Jets, but lost the other games, Plus beat a South Korean team, Paikhto the same season, Aberdeen were top of a group the season they were runners up in North America that included a Uruguayan team, the others included Stoke and Glentoran, 

Also in the Scottish Challenge Cup, Dumbarton and Queens Park, and Dundee, have beaten TNS of Oswestry and Llansantffraid ym Mechain, Alloa and Queens Park have beaten Bala, and Rangers under 21s beat Wrexham and Solihull Moors (Wrexham have beaten Arsenal, and won ECWC games, while ICT have beaten Crusaders, and in Europe, Dunfermline have knocked out Boreham Wood on pens, and Motherwell under 21s knocked out Sligo Rovers, and Ross County beat the mighty Connah's Quay, Stenhousemuir knocked out Waterford, Partick knocked out Glenavon, but in Nigeria, also in the 1970s Ayr United won 3 games including against International Rangers, a top Nigerian team, Hamilton knocked out Coleraine, and Dundee United beat Linfield, Queens Park also beat Cliftonville, Tns did beat Queen of the South, but it was close. Connahs Quay did beat Queens Park in a Challenge cup match, but they were not their best at the time. Inverness drew with a Romanian team in Europe, as well, 

Scottish linked Berwick upon Tweed's record defeat is 9 1 to Hamilton, in 1980, but they did win, the Scottish 3rd tier, once, and over the border won the North Northumberland league in the 19th Century.. In 2016 Queen of the South beat Carlisle 3 2, Annan also beat Penrith 5 1 in the 2010s, Berwick town has polls which says a high percentage of the people, from there, consider themselves Scottish, specially older people, in 2023, but also many says they are English, and many British, or Berwicker, well it could be like when people used to says for all the Russian provinces and princedoms, all the Russias, this like all the Scotland's, its a part Scottish entity outside Scotland. Though no doubt part of England, as national borders are good to keep peaceable, and stable. 

Also a weakened Celtic beat Penzance 6 0 in 1988, and beat St Ouens in Jersey 11 - 1 1972. 

Aberdeen beat Barry in the 1990s in Europe, and Motherwell knocked out Llanelli, in the 2000s, Celtic beat Inter Cardiff, Clyde beat Caernarfon in the Scottish Challenge cup, Aberdeen drew with Finish champions Helsinki in 2023, and Swedish champs Hakken, after beating them 5 1 a couple years earlier. 

Scottish counties and cities played English and Scottish counties in the 19th Century a few times, Renfrewshire  beat Liverpool & District 4 1  in 1887, Airdrie beat County Derry 9 0 at a similar time, 

Shetland won the North Caledonian John Mackay cup in 2015, but lost pens, to Golspie in 2014. Portree have lost to and beaten clubs in Plockton and Kyle, in their history, so all in all, the Scottish isles have beaten and lost to teams from the mainland. I say that for Scottish territorial integrity. 

Brora beating Hearts, in the Scottish Cup, in the 21st Century, 1950s Fraserburgh beating Dundee, and Elgin losing 2 1 to Celtic in 1960, are examples of Highland teams doing well. Plus Inverness Thistle beating Kilmarnock in 1985, Of course lots of times it would be Dunfermline 7 Fraserbrurgh 0 or Celtic 7 Elgin something in the 1960s, But Elgin reached the Scottish Cup quarter final in 1967-68, beating Arbroath 2 0 on the way. 

In 2023 Aberdeen beat Eintracht Frankfurt 2 nil, and drew with PAOK of Greece, and drew with Finnish champions HJK Helsinki home and away, plus drew at home with Swedish champs Hakken, 

Plus Scotland in the 1960s, had 4 clubs play 4 French clubs, and Scotland won 3 - 1 on aggregate, as of Motherwell, Clyde and Dundee, beating Toulouse, Lens, and Valanciennes, Celtic sadly lost to Sedan, Scotland lost 2 - 1 in another tourney as Aberdeen beat Le Harve, but Motherwel and Third Lanark lost theirs. 

Also a Scottish born guy who played for Peterhead in their 13 0 defeat to Aberdeen, in the Scottish Cup, played in the Canada Olympics team, that won the first official Gold in the Olympics in 1904. Though there were 2 earlier events many regard as just as acceptable to be regarded as the first Olympic golds. 

Other cool facts on Scottish football, non old firm teams, include, well many of the great Scottish players obviously played for them  was it Hughie Gallacher, at Airdrie, Jim Baxter at Raith etc etc,  the list is endless, and some had their best spells at them, like Willie Miller, or Paul Sturrock, for the Dons and United, or the famous five at Hibs, I am sure, more Scotland greats did than did not to some extent specially when you include Queens Park. Like Andy Robertson at Dundee United, or McGinn at Hibs, or Craig Gordon at Hearts.  of course, But also players from outside Scotland, included George Best at a Hibs that got relegated, he came after they were in trouble,  but he helped them get promoted again,  Zoltan Varga's spell at Aberdeen was celebrated in the 1970s, and World Cup Winner Claudio Canigia played for Dundee right at the end of his career. Falkirk are the only non old Firm team to have broken the world transfer record, when in 1922 they paid a 5000 pounds fee for West Ham's Syd Puddlefoot after some fine appearances for England in unofficial internationals. He had actually played for them as a guest in WW1, and some wonder if he asked for the move as of the English max wage, well anyway he did not achieve any trophies, but some credit him  a bit, for Falkirk 2 highest league placings, 4th and 5th, either place of him being there for over half a decade, and they did lose a Scottish Cup semi final in 1924 to eventual winners Airdrieonians, so maybe he did not too bad. He also played in a Falkirk 1 nil defeat to the Scottish League select raising funds for a mining disaster, and they won a Stirlingshire cup while he was there, plus a tournament raising money for the disaster victims, 1 nil v East Stirlingshire in 1924, of which he scored the winner in a earlier round v Kings Park, of Stirling.  He left in 2025. In 1914 for example Hearts sold Percy Dawson for a record fee to Blackburn and Killie sold a player, Mr Hamilton for a 4600 pounds record fee to Preston just before Falkirk's purchase. Hibs are the only non old firm team to have had a England, international, but other than them non old firm teams have has internationals for Wales, Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland, Canada and Australia, Trinidad and Tobago, Israel, Senegal,  Lithuania, Netherlands,  (Theo Snelders) Bulgaria 1996, North Macedonia, Capo Verde, Sweden, Yugoslavia and Iceland, 

Most successful non Old Firm Scottish trophy winners, as managers, 

1 Alex Ferguson 10 Trophies plus the Dryborough Cup and Tennants Sixes,  All Aberdeen. He would have been just on his trophies alone the 3rd most succesful club of the 20th Century after Rangers and Celtic, showing how dominant his era was, but most club's greatest eras, were better than their other eras in that way. 

2 Tommy Walker 7 Trophies, All Hearts

3 Hugh Shaw 3 Trophies, Hibs, 

3 Jim McLean 3 Trophies, All Dundee United, plus 1 European Trophy Runner up, which is effectively greater than a league, on some counts, 

3 Alex Smith 3 Trophies, 2 Aberdeen, 1 St Mirren, 

3 Dave Halliday 3 Trophies Aberdeen, if including the Southern league Cup when it became a national cup very briefly, 

7, 2 Trophies, Includes Eddie Turnbull, Aberdeen and Hibs, Scottish Cup and League Cup, plus 2 Dryborough Cups with Hibs, so maybe 4, though these Dryborough Cups were regarded as minor trophies unlike the 3 key trophies of Scottish football, and European trophies. Scott Symon, East Fife, Paddy Travers, Clyde, Hugh Spence, Kilmarnock, Dan McMichael Hibs,  George Anderson Dundee, Plus Callum Davidson 2 with St Johnstone. Kind of, Jonny Cochrane, a Scottish Victory Cup, and a Scottish Cup, with St Mirren, Also, Jock Stein, a Scottish Cup with Dunfermline, and a Summer Cup with Hibs,, likely the most minor of cups to have won, Alex Miller 1 League Cup, and just as minor as a a Summer cup, a Tennents Sixes, Jocky Scott, co manager with Alex Smith for 1 maybe kind of 2, of his cup wins, and a Tennents sixes with Dundee. But most feel Alex Smith was manager of Aberdeen. 

This is up to September 2021. 

I also have more than 4 opinions at the bottom of this page, as in, saying what I think are biggest Scottish football and sport teams, and 2 views, I have. 

Here's my football opinion section. (Love him or loathe him, you can ignore his views) Thats a parody of people who say you cant ignore his, views, of their articles a by line newspaper articles put in the 1980s) 

My 5 plus big views on football and such I want a airing on. 
Firstly, I think the 3rd place play off in the world cup is a good thing. I like it as I think reaching the semi Final of the world Cup is a incredible achievement, and it's importance should be underlined by a special status of position. I have always felt "Runner up" in a many teams cup comp is underrated, along with 3rd in leagues. No I agree, maybe normal national cups do not need 3rd place play offs, indeed semi final is enough of a marker to remember that by. Though to be one of the 4 teams who reached the Fifa world cup semi final is such a achievement it needs honouring. I feel even 4th place is a better honour than semi final status, as it is something tangible. I do not think it is "outside the medals" like in the Olympics, as yes there are 3 medals in the Olympics., but this a different competition. Though I love the Olympics.  Written 2021. 

 

Secondly I am annoyed when teams list their honours, merged teams do not list their previous team's trophies. Like for example, in many almanacs Inverness Caley Thistle do not have listed the Highland Leagues of Caley and Thistle. Now that is forgivable, as maybe the books, and things listing their honours may see them as less status filled than the top tier trophies, and if you start listing them, then maybe you would maybe have to list minor trophies like friendly cups and such. The thing is I think, non league and such trophies are often listed for some teams, but not their previous merged team's honours. Then again, that would up Aberdeen's Aberdeenshire cup hoard, from 18 to much more as of the teams they merged in 1903, I think that would be OK, but just say that in brackets, somehow) The worst example of this, is I have seen books, that have neither Wimbledon AFC or Milton Keynes Dons, claiming their shock FA Cup win over Liverpool from 1988. Liverpool are a great team, won many cups so apologies for reminding Liverpool fans of that. The thing is, they should both be claiming the trophy with brackets explaining it is controversial as to who won it. Same for Livingston in terms of Meadowbank Thistle's hoard. To be fair I have read lots of teams in the North Wales coast claim a Welsh Cup, I am sure Conwy and Llandudno do, from the 1960s, won by a now kind of unmerged team called Borough United who represented the area, when all the top Welsh teams competed in the competition. So thats my view, they should claim it in brackets. Yes some MK Dons fans would get angry, and some Wimbledon AFC fans, would, but it is more annoying for none of them to claim it. Just put it in brackets, or say the whole story. I also think teams like Airdieonians, and Airdrie United are far more connected than some history books claim. Just as one of them went bust, lets face it most of the fans were the previous clubs fans, so in a sense they are the same club, after all a club is it's fans. Maybe there is some financial thing, that you can not say it, but like when they list the Challenge cup honours, Airdrie are listed as 2 different sides, when they are really the same club in terms of support. Written 2021. 

Also, I think Runner up should be more celebrated as a honour. After all some say you never remember who was second, but I think actually if you remember who finished first you normally remember who finished second, unless the event does not affect you so much. Indeed some Runner ups are rightly celebrated like the Dutch and Hungarians world cup runners up of the 1950s and 1970s. I just feel the gap between 1st and 2nd is so small, in many cases, second matters just as much. And some times, the person or team who were second would have been first another year. I feel in so many events it was so hard to be second, it is such a achievement. And sometimes second place is more of a achievement than first. Like being second in the world cup, or climbing Everest is greater than winning a local tourney or some lesser thing. Not that winning those lesser tourneys does not matter. I mean I am saying second is not first of the losers, anymore than first is, it is first of all the teams except first place. I think that is more akin with real life, where the second richest man in the world of banking or farming has achieved a great achievement just as much as the richest,  Written 2021. 

I also think golds is how you should rank the Olympics though, the team who wins the most golds goes higher up the medal table, as just imagine they just also gave medals to 4th and 5th, or just imagine there were only 10 competitors, well they would all win the same amount of medals, if all got a 1st to 10th medal. So Gold matters more. But we should not pretend Runner up is not a achievement, and a amazing one for most international and a great one for some national and such regionals even comps. I mean sometimes yes a team should win their local national cups more often, but sometimes in leagues it is hard to as they have less money than bigger teams. Written 2021. 

 

Also I dont get why the English League cup has 2 leg semi finals, in the 2020s, when so many teams complain about playing too many games. When so often, the semis have lower attendances up to now, than even league games. 

Also  I think the English Charity shield, could be turned into a overseas cup for the top 4 teams, maybe including some foreign teams. Maybe with a first game at Wembley. Instead of those overseas friendly tourneys.  Written 2021. 

Also what about, there could be a one off Tartan Cup. It could be the top 3 teams, like it could be Aberdeen v Celtic 1 game in Ireland, then Rangers Aberdeen in London, and the last game of this round robin on Tartan day in America Rangers v Celtic in Boston. Written 2021. 

Plus, how about, a 39th game, in Scottish context, it could be called the John Buchan series. as of the 39 steps. So how about the 3rd game of the split could be overseas as a extra game, with a reward for whoever was top at the end of the pre split season, being top team plays 6th, 7 th plays 12th etc. These games could be sold to bidders. If the money is not anymore than would have occurred those games could be played in their own team's grounds, at the highest of those teams. Maybe it would make more money. Maybe you could have 1 Celtic game overseas. Then again maybe it it would be better to just have 1 Celtic league game played in North America. I.E Livingston v Celtic. Maybe the 39th game could have been somehow arranged for Winter and the teams who do not get bids play in Spain or Mid East, in a 4 games in 1 day stadia. For the expats. Written 2021. 

Also for the Scottish Challenge Cup, I loved it when we had Welsh, and Northern Irish teams in, and as of Scotland's European results at club level I did not expect our second tier to dominate so well against the best Northern Irish and Welsh league teams. I was happy we used their resources to have some good nearby Celtic teams to play and they were up for it. Plus happy it helped Welsh and Northern Irish teams, giving them a extra fun thing to do, seeing the Welsh league does not have it's biggest teams, so it is nice we can help out, and Norn Ireland, is just that bit smaller in population, so just is unable to have such big teams as Scotland, but it does send a lot of money to Scottish football, so it is good we help them back. I am delighted only Scottish teams won. I dont think the Republic of Ireland, and English lower teams were that bothered, so maybe they did not need to be, they would be better for a Anglo Scottish 1970s style cup. But how about have a Manx select for 1 year, a Cornish team, for 1 year, like Truro, a Faeroese team, a Orkney Shetland and Hebrides select, and also invite one of lesser non league teams from Cumbria and also Northumberland. Not their best teams, like Blyth or Barrow, I mean a level below (so it is less likely they win) that and make it they play 2 years, once guaranteed at home v QOS or Gretna or Stranraer and once guaranteed away, and then another year but not V those 3 mentioned sides. Just as they are so close just to have somebody different. And also a Corby team as it so Scottish. Or even a Doncaster reserves team, as I dont want them winning the competition, but surely Doncaster reserves would be as good as Scottish Premier Under 21 teams, purely as Doncaster according to some options were never given back after the 12th Century treaty about it and Scotland's King David. Maybe even a London Scottish team if one exists of a sort Some even think having Man Utd and Sunderland under 21s may be a good idea. Maybe even a Liverpool select as of their and the city's Celtic history. Written 2021. 

Also, I dont get why Germany dont demand East Germany's medals are counted with the rest of Germany, in the Olympics all time medal table. Why count all the German regimes of the 20th Century in 1 total, which included wide extremes of state, including the more lovely modern West Germany, but also some very different regimes, but but with all that not count the east. I mean the Easterners were just as German or not German as West Germans even if the Easterners  mostly opposed the East's regime, it does not make any difference, surely that was not the medallists fault. Also why does Russia accept not having the USSR in their total, lets face it, it was a Russian dominated state in all reality. Then again as a British citizen maybe I should just keep quiet about that, but actually there are more Germans and Russians so I dont care if they are ahead or behind in the medal table. I should just enjoy it and not bother too much. ​I mean I suppose on that basis some may count some early 20th Century Australian and NZ medals as British as they were so closely aligned to Britain then. Though to be honest I do think Olympic medals tables need a bit of merging in terms of countries, needs a bit of sorting out. I mean it is complicated, maybe there could be variants. Written 2021.

 

Though on the other hand I love the idea of Scotland having played countries that have morphed into other lands. It would be like looking at a list of 14th Century games, Scotland V Transylvania or England v a Moorish province in South Spain. So that is fun to keep in record books. Scotland v the USSR, and even the Saar and such have had teams. 

I also think people should stop referring to rebuilt football stadium as totally new stadiums. So many times, like for the Millenium Stadium, and White Hart Lane, a new stadium is built and the new ones is partly over where the old one was, and people act like it is a new stadium. Surely it is just a rebuilt stadium, a new stadium, totally is one in a new place. After all most football stadiums over time have new stands and to a extent end up like Trigger's Only fools and horses broomstick, that sees the stick and brush replaced so it is a totally new broom, but they are always regarded as the same stadium too. Written 2021. 

For the Welsh League, I would say the Welsh Cup should have back the teams, the likes of Cardiff and Swansea, even their reserves, as their reserves will be very good, and also even the likes of Chester again, Yes it was embarrassing for a non league English team to win it at times, when Cardiff are much bigger, but who cares, as Welsh teams have won English cups, and now many much smaller Welsh teams have won the Welsh cup, so it does not look so bad if a non league English team wins the Welsh cup. Also I would ask if Welsh league teams can compete in the English non league cups, just as Wales is connected with England, But keep the Welsh league. As I think the Welsh league is a great thing to have and can not understand why so many people value it so little, as the title champions of the Welsh league is a great honour. Also my Welsh Cup ideas would say the European place goes to the Welsh League cup, but the Welsh cup would be regarded as most major. Also I think Welsh teams should keep in the Scottish Challenge Cup, and look at cross border comps, for the big Welsh teams with Scotland. Then you get the nationhood aspect and some variance in games. Written 2021. 

Another idea could be a Keltic Cup. A Keltic Cup, would be a competition, where the Scottish Welsh, Irish and Breton sides and Cornish compete. As a one off or more. I dont just mean the great idea of second tier, I mean the Old Firm, and Dons, Hibs, Hearts Dun Utd, etc,  the now huge Swansea and Cardiff, and Wrexham and Newport, plus Linfield, and 2 Dublin teams, plus a Truro team play Manx select and Rennes and Rouen etc. Or even just Scotland Wales and Ireland. Or even just Scotland and Wales. It would be a huge trophy if fans were interested. It could be a long comp in terms of years, or just a one off, celebrating the first times these nations played in football v each other.

 

Declare The Fairs Cup, the Rangers Ajax Super Cup, and 19th Century World Club Championships, official under Uefa as well as Fifa Rules, This would mean, Scotland has won 6 maybe 7 major European trophies, and reached up to end of 2022, Plus reached 10 major European finals, plus 1 maybe 2 European super cups, and 3 maybe 4 World Club  titles. Which would put it ahead of England in ratio of population terms, good for bragging rights. Though we should be chums with the English and every country of course. P.S the Fairs cup is a major European trophy. 

Stop on Wikipedia putting Intertoto cup as a major European trophy, when at times, it bordered on being it, when it had a final, like the 1960s, ones, then it was a major minor trophy, a cut above friendly tourneys etc, and then it could be classed as a good minor trophy, but when it was just a thing about who got furthest in the Uefa cup, and that team could be knocked out in the Quarter Final it is no more a achievement than being the team from your country who got furthest in Europe that season, so should just count as a minor trophy maybe less significant than the furthest your team got in Europe, or their highest ever position in the league, sorry for offence caused there, 

Maybe have a trophy for 3rd place in Scotland, or a who is the highest East of Scotland team, trophy, or maybe that is just defetest, so maybe a bad view, I am wondering about how to make 3rd seem even more of a trophy. 

 

Bring back the Latin Cup, for French, Spanish, Portuguese and Italian teams, for more money, and fun. 

 

Bring back the MItteleuropa Cup, also for more money, Austria, Hungary Czech Republic, Slocakia, Slovebia, Switzerland, etc. 

A other idea is the North Atlantic Cup, or a North Sea Cup, as in Scotland, the Scandinavian lands, and such. The North Atlantic cup depends on the Dutch and Portuguese, but do they need this, whereas I think the Nordic countries like British football, so would be up for the test in a purely North Sea Cup. The problem I think with a North Sea league is most Aberdeen and St Johnstone fans would be no more interested in Aberdeen v a team of a similar size to them in Scandiinavia, than they would with a team from Scotland, possibly less so, if it was not a exciting unusual Uefa Cup game. The only exception may be Aberdeen and Viking as of oil links. So I think it would have to be a cup, maybe even without the top teams, but probably it would need them fr interest sake. I do fear a North European league without the big teams, would attract no more interested per head than the national leagues, and maybe even less as Rangers and Celtic instead of fighting for the title may be mid table, and be less excited for instance, I think the main advantage, would not be that it would be financial, but would be the playing of higher level teams, and that could occur in a cup, where the top Scottish and Scandinavian teams could be in groups stages then a final with a min of 4 games, and max of 6. I think a North European league without the big teams, instead of being like Spanish or French or English league, attracting consumers globally, would be more like instead of sharing 100 pounds between 10 Scottish teams, be like sharing 500 pounds with 50 Nordic and Scottish teams. The only advantage would be the playing of more higher level teams, i.e the best team in Norway, rather than the 12 best in Scotland and vice versa for the Norweigian teams. Which is why a cup would be better. Maybe it could be a one off again.

 

Or even a non big 5 European leagues cup, where Uefa says the winner gets a Champs league place. Maybe splits in into Western Europe, and Eastern Europe versions. Also there is arguments at regionalising European trophies in earlier rounds more for global warming concerns. The risks though is Uefa could use that to cut out smaller countries entries in the champs league though is maybe not a great idea.

Maybe even have a Texaco cup style trophy, of the best Scottish teams or next best v English Championship, and if below that, how about Non Euro qualifiers v English League 1, Although I would strongly oppose the Scottish league ending or Celtic or Rangers joining the English League, I think a British Cup would be good, instead of the League Cup, and Scotland missed a trick when  offered it in the 1980s, but that could never happen now, other than a trophy just with the Old Firm, maybe the English Charity Shield if played overseas as a cup competition could have them. I am a fan of the League Cup though, so would prefer to keep both.

 

Also it would great to bring back the Tennents sixes for Scottish football, maybe as just a one off, maybe even just for the Non old firm teams, as they would not want to risk it.

Its just a thought there for you all.

 

Also what about, its not my place to say, but maybe Clyde should call themself Cumbernauld Clyde, to get local support, but keep their heritage also it shounds like name of a character in a western.

Then again, why not have a Scottish League select minus the Old Firm, v Norwigan league select, minus their best. Maybe not actually, there would be risks of injuries. Maybe a lower league select would be better.

Also, what about like if a footballer, is a good player for a country's national side, and he moves to a larger richer land, then his kids become good at football, and they are born in that larger richer country, well what about if his kids dont, but then their kids are good at football, what about making it you have a double grandparent rule for kids of good footballers, at a sport. so for instance if great Scotland or Wales player's kids were born outside Scotland or Wales, and his grandkids were also, but they played for Scotland, then those grand kids, kids and also grand kids could as well. I mean, doubling the grandparent rule, for those whose grand kids have played for a country, Then it is not a case of larger richer countries taking all the talent, as surely some of their abilities are inherited, not all, but just some, 

I say Welsh football is like this compared to Scotland. The top 4 teams, are SPFL premier size, Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham, Newport and maybe Merthyr, maybe they are championship size. 
Then as Wales has half the population, it has less big cities, but also as of a more spread out demography than Scotland (even though it is smaller, in size, it's population is not as central beltised) comparatively, less big towns, of over 40,000 people, so less teams that make up the meat and potatoes of big sides like Killie and such. Then of those, Wales is spread out more, into more 20,000 people places, and many of the bigger places are more Rugby than football towns. In terms of the local civic pride, not the sport people play all the time. So the remaining small number of 40,000 people Welsh sides, are very small in number, and only a small number are football towns, and not as much as many Scottish ones. So they play in the Welsh league, with towns of places of 20,000 people. So I think the Welsh league is like the Scottish League one, without a big relegated championship team, and if you look at the Scottish league there are a few dozen Scottish teams, of that standard in the Junior leagues and non leagues, and that is the same for Wales. That is why the best Welsh league team is always likely good enough for the championship, and competitive against Premier teams. Because it will always be sensible for some big money guy to have a team winning the Welsh league, and so haveing a team a bit better than the rest so as big in size as a Scottish Championship club. I say the biggest Northern Irish teams, are Championship size, maybe a few, and the rest all lower league than even that and such.  Written 2021. 

Then for Northern Ireland, or the North of Ireland as some call it, my guess would be Linfield, are like maybe Partick Thistle sized, while Crusaders and Cliftonville, are maybe old Clyde in Glasgow, or in between East Fife and Raith Rovers sized, and below that they are all East Fife sized, and smaller, with Derry probably Dunfermline sized, but in the Republic of Ireland's league, for historical reasons. 

Highly controversial view

I say Aberdeen's rivalry with Rangers, is not like some try and claim, two equal prize fighters squaring up against eachother. I also claim the rivalry did not start in the 1980s. I say Aberdeen's rivalry with Rangers in it's heart is exactly the same as Kilmarnock and St Mirren's rivalry with Rangers. It is just Aberdeen are the king of the non Old Firm teams, (I say this as Aberdeen only has 1 major club in the city, while Edinburgh has 4, the 2 big footy teams, the rugby side, and Scotland's Murrayfield, so backers only have one direction in 1 city and 4 in others, which is why the Dons have bigger backers), And this made the Aberdeen size, of being the standard bearer of the non Old Firm teams. There are loads of clubs who see Rangers as the bigger rival, look at Killie fans who moan about Rangers coaches going to Glasgow. It is just as they seem the more the established big side, at least Celtic seem a little outsider, but Rangers despite also being a working class club, seem the big team, to beat even when the Celts are better. And from there Rangers fans were annoyed at Aberdeen having a better record v them than other non old firm clubs, But still the rivalry is about beating Rangers, the big side, and it is just Aberdeen are the standard bearer of the non old firm teams. Thats my view.  So really it is about knocking the established team off their perch, and Rangers just get annoyed about the obsession. Its not like Leeds v Man Utd or some such of 2 comparitive equals, and cities of historic rivaries, its Aberdeen's it's own city, which really no more sees Glasgow as a rival as it does anywhere else most of the time.

 

Also, isnt it interesting the English League Cup Final normally has 2 better teams in it than the Europa League final, but most would say the Europa League is far superior to win.,I say it is as the teams in the early rounds are so much better. So to win the League cup realistically you have to beat 1poor Premiership team, 1 mid table, good standard, one lesser big 6 team, another medium big 6 team, and 1 average Championship team, to win the Europa League you ne to beat, a top 16 Leagues in Europe best team, so top end of Championship quality, or bottom end of Premiership, a above medium level Premiership team, 1 team, who are one of the biggest 10 teams in Europe, better than a lesser English big 6 team, another big 5 leagues top 5 team, who are just below the English big 6, but better than average EPL premiership, and finish in the top 2 of a group which has 4 teams, who are probably with maybe 1 high Championship quality, but 2 bottom end of Premiership quality, so as of that every round in the Europa league you are playing a top team, while in the League cup, the quality is less deep compared with from the Europa League Group stages. Though earlier than that it does have teams, below English League system standard. Plus you get a Champ league place in Europa league, then also all Europe knows you won, and lastly you do it for your country as well, and OK very lastly, the fcat it is 2 legs, means, for all except the final, means, the best find it easier to win, which may sound unfair, but that means the better team wins, rather than the likliehood of a one off cup game, every often, also the Champions league is superior to every league in the world, , 

The lists below were written in 2021, by me myself. 

The biggest anomolies in Scottish Football history in my view. Actually it is spelt anomalies. 

I also have anomaly lists for Wales, Scottish sport and England, and the world. 

1 Hibs going 114 years without winning a Scottish Cup. The biggest anomaloy as during this era Hibs were always a big club, maybe in the 1920s and 1930s they were getting poorer, but they were the best or 2nd club in Scotland in the late 1940s to mid  1950s, and had great teams in the 1970s and in many other eras, infact during such as the 1980s and 1990s, and 2000s were stronger than most teams. 
The only argument why it did not happen is that the league was very competitive in the late 1940s and 1950s, in Scottish terms, so there were many teams to win a trophy, so when they should have won it they did not, and also at least they won the leagues, which is more important. Then in other eras, they at least won league cups, but they did not win that many in comparison to their fellow big clubs, Hearts and Aberdeen. Then again they did win those 2 Dryborough cups, which counts as the leading minor trophy. Indeed their minor trophy haul is high, 1 Wartime Southern League Cup, 1 Wartime Summer Cup and one 1960s Summer Cup, plus good 1950s runs in Europe and a Coronation Cup Runner up in the 1950s. What is more bizarre that of the 6 or so times they were in the 2nd tier, the one where they were in the longest was when they won the trophy completely at odds, with most non old firm trophy wins, as usually trophy wins are when the team is doing well in the league.  That could be explained away by how it was the relatively compared to the top tier, at the time, the strongest second tier ever with Hearts and Rangers also in the league for a while while they were down, and Dundee United. Also maybe Hibs had invested heavily to get out of the 2nd tier, more so than the other times they went down. 
Still the amount of teams who won the Cup other than Hibs was long. You could explain it that in most of that time, Hibs were not the top team, or even top 2, maybe even top 3. So had no right most of the time to expect the cup. The 1940s-50s side that should have won more, maybe used their luck on Wartime Cups, and later sides on the Drybough and Summer.  
2 Hearts 42 year wait for a trophy. For what are the 3rd or 4th biggest club in Scotland to go this long without any of the 3 major trophies was unusual. Hearts had won a sack load of trophies in the late 50s and early 60s, but then won nothing till 1996.Very strange, but explainable as, you could say maybe they won their fair share in the early 60s, then just went on a long run, where first of all Celtic and Rangers dominated, then Hibs and Aberdeen and Dundee United shone through, with Hearts relegated for the first times. Only really in 1986 did they come back very strongly, and even then it was more of a achievement to be runner up so closely in the league, than to claim they absolutely deserved a league win, after all there were 35 other games to win the trophy without that last game slip up. Then Rangers became dominant, and Hearts were great to get back on their feet under Jim Jefferies and get that cup finally. I say maybe the best team each season should EXPECT to win trophies, maybe the second be dissapointed not to, maybe the 3rd just about, but the 4th best team in a era (even if they are competitive with the best 2 or 3, which is less the case for the 4th best team in Scotland each season, than in the pre 1990s era( though then the 4th best were probably less far ahead of the rest than sometimes occurs now)), are still a little bit depending on good luck to win a trophy as there are 3 teams better than them, and most of that time, Hearts were not even a top 4 best team, as of Aberdeen and Utd.
3 Aberdeen's 4 and a half decade wait to win a trophy after formation. Not so unusual, but they were quite good from soon after they started, and with such a base, maybe should have won a trophy earlier. It is debatable if the Scottish Cup or Southern League Cup was the first trophy. Really though the West of Scotland had so much of the talenet, and football arrived in the Granite City later than the other big cities, so maybe it is no suprise it took time. Maybe perversely if there were 2 Aberdeen sides it would have been sooner, as of fluking a cup, but then probably Aberdeen would have been weaker, and not won so much.
4 No non Old Firm team winning the league  from 1986 to 2021 and counting, so beating the record Aberdeen stopped in 1980, of Old Firm consecutive title wins by a long way, as that run had started in the 1960s. Looking at how Atletico Madrid, win so many titles in Spain over Barca and Real, you could predict one team would have squeaked through. Maybe Hearts in 1986, Aberdeen in 91, Dundee Utd in that late 1990s run, Hearts under Jim Jefferies, or Romanov, or maybe Aberdeen under McInnes, of the 2 to 3 times they were running Celtic close at stages. Though in perspective, of those 3 and half decadesm I mean decades  I think all those seasons were the only times the Old Firm were strongly challenged, maybe Aberdeen had a couple of other early 90s challenges, but none as close as these. And on only 2 occaisons I mean occasions did a Non Old Firm team get close enough to challenge on the last day. So to be fair maybe it is explainable by how Rangers were spending so heavily in the David Murray era, and Aberdeen and Dundee Utd dropped massively from the late 80s, maybe Aberdeen's drop was delayed tiill the mid 90s, but from then each were not the challengers they were in the 80s. And Hearts most seasons under Romanov did not have the financial muscle of Celtic and usually Rangers. So the Old Firm were just able to grind the point out, if there was just one Old Firm side, a few titles would have been won, and maybe if Aberdeen or Hearts had had one of their best seasons the rare times, both Old Firm teams were dropping then it could have occurred, but sadly that was not so. To be fair to McInnes, Aberdeen had been out of it for a decade and half, so the fact he got Aberdeen to challenge was the great success, it was the times they were nowhere near in the other years that were with Hearts why other teams have not taken a flag. I say the likliest chance is if Hibs, Hearts or Aberdeen, get a super strong team one season, and get in the high 70s in terms of points, I think more is unlikely unless they get loads of cash, and then both Old Firm teams do bad that season, which is a possibility, as every so often one gets lower points than normal, if their are teams are going though deliberate periods of change, planned periods of change, or just a team ages quicker than they thought, and such. It should happen some time. 
5 Aberdeen's 17 year wait for a trophy ending in the League Cup win the 2010s. Well it was a bit longer than you should expect, but then again, maybe teams win their trophies in bundles, yes for some, of just 1 and lots of runner ups, but that could be it, and the bad eras, go in bundles of years as well. After all a really good Aberdeen team will be liklier to be good the next season, than a poorer Aberdeen, so that is what occurred. And it is not as if Aberdeen were challengeing that much for trophies in that era, Hearts were doing better in the 2000s. 
6 Dundee United not winning a Scottish Cup till the early 90s. Not that bad, as lets face it they won 2 league cups, and their title win, was essentially a cup win on the last day, they reached a Uefa Cup Final, which some see as a other cup loss, I see it as a amazing achievement to have got that far. In reality if the Scottish Cup and League Cup were just called the same name, then Dundee Utd won their fair share. What was strange was the losses to teams they were favourites versus, Motherwell, and St Mirren, and later St Johnstone. But explainable away by how, yes when Rangers and Celtic are faves to win they are big bucks sides, but I do notice if both Old Firm teams go out, people act like the new favourites for the trophy are as strong a faves as the Old Firm were, but in reality it drops from being 2 dominant teams, who can beat almost any  team 4 times a season, to the liked of Dundee Utd or Hibs, versus a Motherwell or St Johnstone tea, who they normally do not beat 4 times a season, and who also are a very good version of their teams I mean the likes of St J, so it is not that much of a shock if the so called underdogs win there, as these are specially good versions of those teams, normally to have reached a cup final, like it will normally be the best St J team of the decade or best cup specialist St J that reaches a final, rather than the least formidable of the decade. And anyway Dun Utd  they have won it twice anyway now. It is amazing that Hearts lost the league on the last day at Dens park in 1986 but Utd won it in 1983, at the same place, so kind of makes sense one of them would fail, and one would succeed. And when you consider Dundee United never finished 2nd up to now in the league, then that last day win was a amazing cup final style win, as no other time were they so close. 
7 The lack of trophies I mean trophies won by the 3 big non Old Firm teams. Seeing how perenialy strong Hibs, Aberdeen and Hearts are, you may have thought they would have won more. But I say, it is not such a suprise. It makes sense when you see their resources and ability to buy such a high quality of player, and take off the other sides. Surely Rangers and Celtic gobble up the majority of the trophies maybe 2 thirds, sharing them between eachother. Then when they miss out, the rest are won, half by the other big 3 or even big 4 if you include Dundee United, and the rest by the the other sides. That makes sense as lets face it Aberdeen Hearts and Hibs do not win every games against the other sides, so why should they expect ton win every cup game. The fact Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs have each won 4 leagues, kind of looks like there is a statistical reason for why they have.
8 The lack of Old Firm European Trophy Wins. This is a little unusual as they are 2 huge sides, and have done very well in Europe at times, especially the 1960s and 70s, and Rangers had big bucks in the 1990s. What is more unusual is comparing with the rest of the league, Aberdeen have won as many European trophies, more if toy count e Super Cup, and Dundee Utd, have reached a European Final. Then looks how Dunfermline to Killie all have got far. But maybe explainable by how European football was more competitive in the 1960s, like a Welsh non league team beat a Serie A team in the 1960s, a Highland League team beat Dundee after they won the league, and clubs from across Europe could challenge just like how English country village cricket teams could beat their counties in the 1930s. So smaller Scottish teams getting far is less remarkable when you consider teams across Europe were getting far Though still a great achievement. Yes Rangers and Celtic reached a few cup finals they also lost, including the 2 in the 2000s, but in reality compared with other smaller European countries the achievements of the Old Firm in Europe is actually pretty good. Yes not compared to Barca and Ac Milan, but yes compared to most other lands. And of course no small other than Portugal, the medium and sized Netherlands, other than Scotland has won the European Cup, so a great success there. Well you could count Serbia actually, while Romania is quite populous really. Though both those were big achievements as well. 
9 No Scotland team getting past the Group stages even womens teams of a major tourney. Explainable as well other countriues have great players as well, and actually there were only 8 teams in the 1992 Euros, so that was a good stage to reach, and there were not that many teams in the 1970s world Cups. And it was good enough to just get to those world cups, many lands smaller than Scotland never got to those world cups, 74, 78, 82 and 86. and 90. Plus it is almost a artificial barrier to state, I mean if it went that round it would be another. 
10 Celtic long wait for a trophy in the 1990s. Not that bad but it was quite while, but explainable as they were not as good as Rangers or Aberdeen at the time, Aberdeen were still on the crest of a wave from the 80s. 
11 No Rangers cup win from the early 2010s, to 2022, Well the other clubs could say, welcome to my world, they just were not good enough yes they reached many semis but only a super best team can be disappointed not to have won cups regularly. 
12 No cup for Mother well, Mid 90s  to 2021, Strange as they were so good in the league in that time, you may have thought they could do it, I mean lots and lots of runner ups and 3rd places in the league. To be fair though though they were good, they were never a title challenger 2nd or 3rd, it was always best of the rest. If anything they can happy to have won at least one, and to have stayed strong in the league. 
13 St Johnstone 2 cups in 2021. Well explainable by how they had a good team, and this sometimes happens, like Clyde in the 1950s, and East Fife in the late 1940s, very often a provincial team that wins a cup also reached another cup final in the same couple of years, like Inverness, in the 2010s and lost it, but this time such a side won it, maybe it makes sense that one time, a good team had the players to do it twice. 
14 Not many cups for McIness, I think Aberdeen only winning 1 cup was strange, as take away Celtic and they would have been a cinch for a couple more maybe a few, but then again Celtic were just so dominant is the explanation, and had some way of beating Aberdeen over and over again. 
15 Inverness Livi and Ross County winning cups soon after their formation. Well maybe they were just so up for making history, and so many people were willing to invest in this dream, so they became the most likely non big 5 teams to win. Once they had done it there was no big urge from fans and owners or players to do it again. They had been there and got the t shirt. 
16 No win v Brazil in football despite nearly a dozen tries. Strange as other small countries have succeeded, but the fact is lots of those wins were actually not regarded as full international matches by Brazil. Most times Scotland played Brazil it was a major tourney or one where they were full teams also taking on England, (one of the 10 biggest teams)  so wanting to put in a effort. And to be fair we have had some goals and draws, and also look how we have beat the English, the Dutch the Germans, and French at good levels, also Spain and the CIS/Russia/USSR, and USA. Plus the Argentinians. Only Italy have Scotland been quite weak at beating other than Brazil of the top sides. So it is maybe no surprise Scotland have one of the big countries they have never beaten so far. And to be fair Brazil are the best, it is only Italy and Germany who rival them across the span of football, indeed Uruguay and Hungary have had times they were weaker than Scotland for a decade or so. 
17 Queen of the South never in the premier. Strange that a reasonable sized town, have not been in the premier, but on the bright side they reached a cup final in the 2000s, and actually it is a little away from the central belt where football is even more fanatical, and they do not have as big a crowds as central belt teams town  of the same size. Still it would be nice to see them up there for a season or so. 
18 Dunfermline no cup since the late 1960s. To be fair, why should a provincial club of any the 40,000 people towns, expect to win a cup, when  they have less resources that is why they celebrate their wins so well, even cup finals and shock wins. 
19 Dundee no cup since the 1970s, well the club have had bad spells, and have been overshadowed by Dundee United, and have not been that close most of the time, so that explains that. 
20 No East Kilbride team in the league. Strange but should happen when the Lowland league team go up, so for this among the biggest towns in Scotland, it should happen soon. Then again New Town clubs have less crowds than old industrial towns. 

21 Also Motherwell and Airdrie not winning the league more in the  1920s-30s, but I blame the fact Rangers were just so strong. 

22 Some may feel Celtic and Rangers winning so much is an anomoly but it is as they buy the best players of the other teams, and others and are great organisations. 

23 Some may say Aberdeen winning so much in the 1980s was a anomoly but actually they had to have a good spell some time, and can be proud to have come good when Rangers were spending more on their stadia, and Celtic were not as good as the 60s, and other places were hurt by industrial decline and the Granite City was helped by oil. And they had been coming good for a decade, and always dark horses of nearing being a major team. 

24 Other teams winning 1 off trophies, well it had to happen some times for them. 

25 Rangers went a long time not winning the Scottish Cup in the 1980s, well it was as Aberdeen were so good, and Celtic,  and Rangers won their fair share of league cups, 

26 Why have Rangers won so many league cups almost as many as Scottish cups. Well maybe it is as the Scottish Cup had a variety of winners that was larger pre 1945, and has become even narrower in variety of winners especially since the 1970s, and some changes like the Premier League starting , and the league ground receipts entirely going to home teams, then the Bosman ruling and TV money, more so for bigger teams; So actually it was not a case of their League Cup total having to catch up with 40 or 75  years of domination in the Scottish Cup, it was more a small lead for their Scottish Cups, but then they won so many League Cups, but maybe it was as just some thing of they won 1 cup, some seasons, and it was like, they picked that longer straw by chance. Though I do wonder if the best team win the league, then I wonder if a team has a much better first 11 compared to their team as a whole, if they are a tiny bit more likely to win the league cup compared to the Scottish Cup, as of injuries become commoner, and the stresses of the end of the season, making games more a little more 50 50 (though still more favoured to the higher calibre players of Old Firm teams v other teams, and top 5 teams v other teams) in the Scottish cup, as the season goes on, than the Scottish Cup. The conventional wisdom is the Scottish Cup is the greater trophy as of its history, even though there is little difference other than when the final is. Also Fergie at Aberdeen claimed he tried harder in a the Scottish Cup, than the League cup before 1986, though he is a expert at mind games, as the greatest Aberdeen manager, so maybe he was just doing mind games to explain the more Scottish cups, and less league cups, there, as the footballing genius that he is. Though there is not much reason to not believe him really.  (ctd below)

27 Celtic had a bad era in the 40s and 50s. I say it is as they were maybe damaged during the war and found it hard to get out of the pit, and once they did they were flying again. Looking at other teams winning trophies in that era, it is a bit like how non old firm teams won a lot of trophies at the start of the period where Rangers were in the lower tiers. See case notes, for higher entry there Case 11, of Rangers not winning that many trophies.

28 Aberdeen went over 20 years without winning at Ibrox, 1991 to 2010s. Strange in a way, but actually Aberdeen were quite below their par in many of those seasons, and Rangers were at their best, also Aberdeen did win loads of times at Pittodire, v them, and even at Hampden, plus the fact is they won in 1991, I think it was, and in the 2010s, twice, and haf many  draws and Rangers were out of the top league for a while. Aso Aberdeen had good runs v Killie and Dundee at times then as well long winning streaks, it likely makes statistical sense somehow, So it kind of makes sense, though it a big gap, they maybe bundled their wins at Ibrox on either side of it, and it coincided with some bad spells, for the Dons, and good ones for the Gers. Also I am sure Killie and Dundee have had great runs v some teams in that period. 

29 Motherwell staying in the Scottish top tier, mid 1980s to 2023 and on. strange as they were not that strong comparatively before then in the recent couple of decades, and Hearts, Hibs and Dun Utd, with everybody smaller than them down multiple times. Maybe explainable as perhaps they were stronger in the early 80s, than I am imagining, they were never a 3rd tier team, and then when they went up they hit some luck of the league expanding by 2 then another 2, so perhaps there were teams smaller than them in the early years to fill out the bottom places, then they developed a very strong team in the 1990s, which perhaps was built to comfortably survive in the league, and then every so often they got boosts of financial backers, big sales of players, and perhaps they knew how to keep ahead of the other non-city sides. Whereas perhaps Hibs, Hearts and the Dundee's were aiming for higher. So perhaps good luck and planning.  

30 Wny did up to 1960s Clyde stay in the league as a top team for so long, maybe as they just had the ability to use the fact  ability that they had to keep there place like how a millionaire finds it easier to make a million, than a pauper does, and omnce the league reduced the amount of teams, the top tier, they lost that place and the ability to hold their players so fell down, especially as Inv Liv, TRC and the other new teams joined. 

Maybe some more below, 

Other sports 
1 No Scottish Grand slam since the 1990s, not strange as it is tough and Scotland have less rugby resources in terms of rugby towns, than Wales, England, France and maybe even Ireland. 
2 Colin Montgomerie not winning a major. Then again other Scots did like Lawrie, and Stephen Hendry stopped Jimmy White winning a snooker title, and Andy Murray won his, it was just bad luck Colin Montgomorie did not get one, but he was the player of the Ryder Cup, so a Grand Slam really.  I mean Ryder Cup. but Ruder Cup is what it was when some fans got rowdy once. But usually they are not rowdy and rude, and it is a great competition of friendship between the EU & GB and USA, 
3 Scotland never beating NZ at rugby so far. Well not bad as unlike football you can not really fluke a win v a much much superior team. Yes you can fluke a win where the team is playing a bit better but the Southern Hemisphere were on a other level at rugby till the 2000s, and are still a bit ahead, so it was not that amazing, we did get a draw though. And we have had great records, v Aus, England at home, France, and SA, and actually have at times been better than Wales and Ireland. Plus of course Fiji, Japan, Italy, and Argentina, and Western Samoa, and Romania and Georgia. 

4 Scotland's best Rugby teams include so many from the borders. Well it is as they are so interested.

5 Scotland going about 40 years without winning at Twickenham. Well it is not that amazing as England are a strong rugby power, so it conincided with some great seasons for the English, but also home advantage is suprisingly strongt in rugby. Meanwhile Scotland had loads of wins at Murrayfield v the English, so it was a bit lomnger than you might expect if you look at how good Scotland were in the 80s and 90s, but England were quite good most of that time, but in the 2000s and 2010s, England were ranked a comparitevly large way above Scotland so maybe it was a tough taks to beat them there, and Scotland did get a draw at least once, but in the end Scotland stopped the streak, so very sweet. Also Scotland have had streaks of losesses at Cardiff, Dublin and Paris, and vice versa England and France at Murrayfield, and Wales and Ireland as well. It was a bit long, but then again home advantage does tell, and England had some good teams then, and much better Scotland beat the English a lot of times at Murrayfield in that time, and France and Australia and more. .

Wales, 
1 Never reaching a world cup or Euros for years. 1950s, to 2010s. Well explainable by how other countries have great players as well. 
2 And when Wales did reach them Wales got very far. Well maybe explainable by how, to get to the tourneys Wales had to be very good, to beat seeding problems and such, and how other sides have bigger grounds, and so to do this had some amazing players, and used that well. So just flew when they got there. 
3 The lack of Cardiff and Swansea English cup wins. Well not that bad as actually many places in England too have not won that many and are bigger places. 

4 How Wales are so good at rugby for the smallest population of the 6 nations. Its as South Wales valleys love it so much. I would compare it to a steam cooker of the best players all so interested against each other there.

5 Lack of Wales wins in Athletics, compared to Scotland, I say its as Wales is so much more interested in Rugby and as of late Wales has become as good at individual person sports as Scotland, with a good cyclist compared to tennis. Though in Gold Scotland has a lead. And Wales had a smaller number of people, and actually did win some events. 

6 2 Welsh clubs sides, Newport and Cardiff getting so far in Europe in the 60s, 70s and 80s, well in those days there were less games to get to the Semi finals, and the standard of many countries as of less professionalism was lower than the more standardised pan European standard. So a good draw could get you far. Also the real elite teams were closer in standard to normal teams. As shown by how many smaller Scottish clubs also got far in Europe in that time, like Kilmarnock & Dunfermline. 

7 How Welsh league in football, lacks big clubs from Newport, Swansea and Cardiff. I say it is as there is no room for a second big club in those locations, especially outside the system a potential derby team would have been in. 

8 Lack of Welsh clubs rugby wins on European level, Well its as the regional set up has not been taken to the heart by fans yet, as local town clubs still have so much pride, and celebrated Amateur era history, and over those 2 decades Wales did win loads of Grand Slams so it has not been that bad. Maybe it geared to international set up, 

9 Why Wrexham won so many Welsh cups, but were often the quite distant 3rd or 4th team in Wales. Well its as they started earlier, and were as of being lower tier, maybe more inclined to concentrate on it than the big 2. 

England 

1 Leicester winning the EPL. Well maybe it was as the big 4 had a drop, where they were all resetting their squads, and actually less fancied sides, like this used to win the EPl or 1st division, like in the 1970s, just about well all the time. So maybe it was reverting to a former norm for a brief period. 

2 No English international football major trophy in 1967 to 2021. Well maybe it was just as other countries also have great players. 

3 Tottenham going without a trophy for so long since the 2000s, and 1990s, despite being strong. Well perhaps it is as they were never the side rated best or that often second best by most experts whereas Chelsea, Liverpool, Man Utd, Arsenal and Man City have all had eras when they were comfortable in that group. Its like how Arsenal went a long time without winning cups in the 2000s, maybe as they were not really top 2 that often after the arrival of Chelsea's millions and Mourhino. After all Stoke and Newcastle went far longer.  

4 Liverpool + Man Utd going so long 70s - 80s, |+ vice versa 90s - 00s, without a title, well I say its as the other was dominant and actually the one that did not win was rarely all that close to a title in those times, I mean each had a surprising lack of runner ups. 

World, 

1 India don't get many Olympic medals, even though highly populous China, and the USA and Russia / Ussr have done, Well its as they are not that interested in these sports, look they are good at cricket. And they do well at the Commonwealth games.

2 Norway do so well in the Winter Olympics, well its as they try so hard

3 New Zealand are so good at rugby, well its as they are so interested in it. Some say the same about South Africa, but it is a bigger country, though I see what they mean in some ways. New Zealand are good at lots of sports. Rugby Union, Cricket, Rugby League, and Netball, But of course not so good at football, but even then pretty good at a lot. I suppose they have specialised at them, to the detriment of footy, which is the world's game, I mean Dundee beat them by loads once at soccer.  The rugby thing has worked for them though very well.

4 So few French teams have won European trophies. Well maybe its as the big clubs are not as big. as Italy, England, Germany and Spains, well until PSG started investing so heavily. 

5  Russia dont dominate European football, Maybe it is as they invest less + are far from the West European centre of soccer, 

6 The Dutch have never won a world cup and only 1 Euro champs. Very unlucky for such a incredible amount of teams with 3 World Cup runners, and many semi finals, well maybe it is as though are great, they just were not good enough, and when they started doing great there were lots of other great footballing countries, and always one to stop them. Indeed only in the 1970s would have said they were the favourites, and some say, really only in 1974. Indeed most lands who have won loads, were also runners ups at times when they were the favourites. But the lack of Euro champs is unusual.

7 Barcelona took so long to win a European Cup. Well its as there were lots of other great teams, and they just were not at that level till then. 

8 The Germans have such a great record at international football. Well its as they have so many people, and are always producing great players, just like you can never write off the Old Firm, it is the same for the Germans, except of course like when they are 3 nil down and being out played, that kind of thing, then its all over. 

9 Brazil did not win the 2014 world cup. Well they just did not have the players, and the other best sides were better. 

10 Poland dont do that great at football, Well its as they are not that interested comparatively and did well in the 70s. And in club football maybe the more rural percent of the population, like Frnace, means they have less big town and big city sides per their population. Like Russia, 

11 Hungary did not win the 1954 World Cup. Strange as they beat West Germany so strongly in a earlier round (Though it was a weakened W G team) , but then again they got to the final, and won lots of Olympics, so should not be too unhappy, if the Euros started earlier, they've won it.

12 Greece win Euro 2004. Well all the other sides who won the Euros were either consistent major forces in the game, or teams with great great great players renknown around the world. Although Greece had good players none were as well known as the Laudrops, and such for Denmark 92, or such, so I say maybe as Greece invested so much in the Olympics this had a impact on sports even football, and they had a manager who was good in the German league a decade before with Kasierslautern, winning their German league, German Bundesliga, but the manager thing well every team has a manager who has done something great, or most, what matters more is the specialness of certain players. 

13 Why Brazil is so footballing good, its as it has so many people, maybe, 

14 Seville 7 Europa Leagues 2000-23. its as La Liga is superb, its not just the top 2 , the rest is great, but stratified, so same teams qualify, and just not CL group win quality,

 

I say the biggest teams Scottish football in order are, nothing for anything to get annoyed about it is just by silly view, Celtic and Rangers, followed by the remaining four big, big city teams, Hearts, Aberdeen, Hibs and Dundee United,

Then the next group is, the big town clubs, Motherwell, Kilmarnock. St Mirren, Dunfermline, Dundee, Falkirk, Partick, St Johnstone, Inverness, Livingston, Queen of the South, Morton, Raith Rovers, Ayr United, Airdrie, Hamilton, and as of the backing,  of a owner, Ross County, Yes Dundee and Partick are from the big cities but they have fallen a bit in support behind their city rivals, though Dundee could catch Utd. Dundee were getting much lower attendances than Utd in the 90s, but are not that much lower when they are in the same league in the 2010s.  Written 2021. 

Then some established smaller places, clubs, East Fife, Dumbarton, Alloa, Cowdenbeath, Arbroath, then a number of league sides, around twenty, including Queens Park, then a number of about 30 Lowland league, and Junior and Highland League sides, and then tens of smaller sides even that that. Of all sorts of towns, but factoring in population.

The changes in the future could be Dundee become a equal of other big city teams, unlikely but maybe, and least likely of all maybe the Dundee sides merge, and it successfully merges a team affinity for all Dundee, making it possibly not much smaller than the other 3 below the Old Firm, but I think that is very unlikely.  Also maybe East Kilbride become a major big town team, with the every so often millionaire investor making any team below these big town teams, vie with them like Ross County for their places. Maybe long term small clubs in big cities could be important like Cove or Edinburgh City, though not comparable to the big city teams, but though maybe Partick, though very unlikely could become a proper big city team in terms of size of the club to rival the bigger 6, in attendances and financial backing, competing with the likes of the other big city teams, Yes they are in a big city but Rangers and Celtic have too much of the city's support for them to be classed with Hearts and Aberdeen etc. This list factors in, fans, wealth of long term owners, and trophy wins, and attendances, and success, mostly about recent successes, not just trophies but league positions, as that is affected strongly by the size of the club. The biggest debates is are Rangers or Celtic bigger well Is ay it is whoever has been winning the league most recently, and are Hearts the Dons or Hibs bigger, well Hearts do have bigger crowds, but Aberdeen have more money, but I shall say attendances matter more in size of club. I think maybe as there are so many sport teams in Edinburgh, maybe Aberdeen have a easier job getting the rich backer, than even Hearts, as Edinburgh have Murrayfield, more rugby and Ice Hockey teams, and the 2 big Edinburgh teams, which at times is good for excitement, but maybe splits rich backers in Edinburgh and makes some backers not want o alienate rival supporters, unlike Aberdeen where backing Aberdeen should not alienate many Aberdonians. , Though that just means Aberdeen's recent successes are even more of a achievement, if they are 4th instead of 3rd. so no shame on the Dons there. Same for Hearts. This is the 2021 view on this, not much different to 2010 views there. 

 

In terms of other teams and Sports, and such, maybe Scotland football and Rugby team, would go just behind the Old Firm in size, then also Glasgow and Edinburgh rugby would be in the Killie and such category of size of club, and the Ice hockey teams, maybe when there is a big basketball team as well,  a bit smaller, and the other rugby teams, in with the clubs outside the big towns clubs, I mean smaller than the likes of Raith. Then the biggest shinty, the biggest netball club and national side, and golf clubs, get in the category with the Brechins and such of the world or maybe smaller. Scotland Cricket team would be in that category as well. Probably Scotland women and rugby teams as well at the moment, While the biggest Scottish womens football teams,  would maybe be in the East Fife etc Dumbarton category or a bit smaller, they could have potential to reach the status of Killie sized clubs, you could say they are merging with men's teams as in becoming part of their organisations in the 2020s, so maybe really shall just be lumped in with their status really. I would say those biggest of Scottish womens footy clubs would not even have been the size of Brechin and such in the 1990s, but are now of that comparable size in the 2020s.  Scotland Netball are 3rd in Status of the womens sports team I think. Then Athletics clubs are below in terms of size Scottish non league clubs, likely. But Scotland Commonwealth games team, would be in the status of with the Killie sized clubs and such I say. I bet if you include Junior teams, and nonleague teams for football the other sports could put this list at over 100 clubs. Yes there are local groups like sports teams, for people just play against with no spectators but I would not include them. What is sure is Scottish football teams would dominate such a list right through. I say the most likely big change could be Scottish women's football team rise to be a top 10 status team, or maybe top 20, and maybe Scottish Olympic team could occur not that I oppose or support that, and they could be a top 10 status team, as Scotland does like its athletics, and sports.  I would say tennis though we have Andy Murray does not have teams in that way,, but maybe individual Scottish sportsmen and women could be on this list amalgamated and be in the top 10, or some such. If put as individuals every so often they could be in the top 20, like Andy Murray or Colin Montgomerie his peak and the like. Though I would prefer to list them as individual sports, or even just lump all the best boxers, and golfers and all indie sports guys together. So yes, if Scotland has no great golfer one year, they would have someone in one sport. So in that sense that group may go just behind Dundee United or even higher. Oh yes, Scotland Curling are bowls are probably football non league sized

 

Also, what about how football commentators often pretend a game is over even when it is just 1 nil and act amazing a team has equalised, when they have been watching football for 30 years and must have seen this millions of times, Well OK, maybe it is to make it seem more amazing, but the stranger one, is pundits who claim "Well this cant not happen", and seeing we live in a probability universe, I cant get it, why are they so sure. Sometimes it may be banter, bravado, or encouraging a view to encourage drama, or sometime it may be as they are so expert on the football, they imagine that tactics mean a team will 100 percent win as they are superior, when in reality things change, and results may not go the way hey expect. I dont follow tactics so much I follow results and look at history to prove what is likely, and remember that strange things can happen. a great team can be relegated, a unfancied team win, its all probability yes the great team should win, and normally do but thats my view, and also probabilities change depending on what is occurring, I dont think that is factored in, for sport or politics predictions, though commentators and pundits are great, no doubt, 

How about, with New Zealand as of 2022, losing rugby domination, certainly the Southern Hemisphere did, how about NZ and Aus pay for a Pacific Islands team to play v, subsidising them to be a strong competitor v them, & Arg, South Af and Japan, in their area, to rival the 6 nations, 

My other idea, is a map of Scottish sports, the majority sport, in each area, it would be football for almost everywhere, plus a few places in the Borders, and Ayr and maybe Stirling a shading for Rugby, with a bit of Edinburgh, plus Shinty another shading that would be it, around Fort William, 

Welsh, would be mostly football and some Rugby in the South mainly the Valleys, and such. 

Then for England, the South West a bit of rugby, mostly football nationwide, and some Rugby League in the North, Hull and that Triangle in the North West, and maybe some Cricket as well somewhere. 

🏆 The Dons Cup. 🏆 

Aberdeen FC, should host a tournament, including Wimbledon, FC, Milton Keynes Dons, and Hendon FC, as the Dons Cup, or maybe Hendon should.Or much better, have the same held at round robin style,  Hendon and Pittodrie, winner plays at the team drawn's out of a hat's ground, and losers have 3rd place play off likewise. Maybe even just a under 21 tourney. Plus if peace is agreed between Ukraine and Russia, how about teams from the Donbass, and Rostov On Don. as there is a River that flows into the Black Sea called the Don, actually the teams from there would be of big places, so pretty strong. Plus Doncaster, Yorkshire as it is named after the River Don. Plus maybe a select of people called Don, Dons of Universities, and thats thats. 

Also for Scottish Women's football, 

The situation up to the near end of 2022, is, Glasgow City have dominated the current Scottish Womens Preimer League, league, 15 out of 20 titles, with the Old Firm just 1, so a Glasgow lead, but not the old Firm, with again just 4 Runner ups for the Old Firm, and 3 runner ups for Glasgow City,  

In the Scottish Women's Cup, the Old Firm, have won 1 out of 50 comps, and had 3 Runner ups, while also have had 9 cups for Glasgow City, and 1 runner up,  The Scottish Women's Premier cup, has been won by the Old Firm twice, and Glasgow City 6 times, out of 19 competitions. With 2 Old Firm runner ups, and 6 Glasgow City Runner ups. 

In 2014 and 2020 Glasgow City reached the Womens Champions League Quarter Finals. 

Also in 1938 there was a Scottish Womens league title won by a Edinburgh team, and between 1972 there was between then and 1999 2002, Scottish womens league titles, not all years are listed, but there is no evidence a Old Firm side or even Glasgow City  won them they were won out of there. 

Also of the Womens FA Cup in England, from 1970, the first 3 Runner ups were from Scotland. 

All this shows the Old Firm have not dominated Scottish Womens football, unless you include Glasgow City in which case they have had periods of dominance but still less than the non old firm teams. 

There was a also a Scottish womens league cup before the 2002 or so SWPL, for the league system afore then, and it was won out of about 15 Competitions by teams from Aberdeen to Cumbernauld and lots of Scottish laces in the west.,  with a Clyde win, by mostly non Glasgow. Nobody would regard Clyde as Old Firm. Hibs and KIlmarnock ladies have been top trophy winners in the era. 

Champions League, EPL Domination? 

So with the EPL in 2022 having the most money will they dominate the Champions League. I say in 2022 it is possible not, as though the EPL has the most money, the money is shared in a supposed equallness around clubs, though I dont really see it is equality if they are paying footballers millions, when surely true equality would have it shared among the population. Though there is a argument for it, in terms of sporting fairness, but actually if Barca and Real have more money then they can take EPL players despite La Liga having less money on average per team. Also the fact England also has only 4 Champions League places for 6 big clubs, means 2 will not be in the competition each season, which derails their plans every so often, in money and keeping players. So if you look at the 30 biggest clubs in Europe in money, half are English but only half them are in Europe at most, while all the other clubs are, in European comps, so that means, England if it has 5 of the 10 biggest clubs only has 4 in the champs league, so non English teams have all their top 30 teams in. While for other European competitions, most of England's other 15 big clubs in the top 30 are not in Europe. This has affects on keeping players who want to play the European football, and in the end then sees despite England having so much money, their teams have a competitive advantage by being in the EPL, but competitive disadvantage by being outside the qualifying places, so maybe instead of winning half or most champions leagues as you may expect from a pyramid style domination, of the rich getting richer and the most, they will only win a half to a 3rd, as PSG, Barca and Real and Serie A times will get try after try, in a row, while they the EPL may win just a third at most of Europa Leagues at Conference leagues as of having so few places in it. And then there always being at least 1 better team, from the top 30 European teams in the lesser European competitions, and even a level of the way Poker world champs work of so many games that the best player in the world is unlikely to win it every year.  This is good for the EPL, as it keeps the Champions League as interesting, and the big prize. As part of the glamour of football is the patriotic pride of beating a foreign club, so I think the EPL may actually benefit if top European teams carry on seeming competitive against top EPL teams. I think in 2022, it was something like EPl 1.9 billion, rest of world football maybe 5 billion, in TV revenue. So thats not like total financial out of anybody else's league domination. 

Womens Sports 

So I was thinking what is the most valuable women's sport league in the world, well in men's sport, there is NFL, NBA, Champions League, MLB, NHL, EPL, Serie A, La Liga, League 1, Bundesliga,  the Indian Cricket league, MLS and Seria a, AND The SPFL, well they are filled with piles of cash. Looking at the attendances and viewing figures all I can see is WNBA, and the Australian Netball league get almost SPFL viewing figures but not attendances, so in reality I think that is pretty OK, as there is more interest from men in sport, so I think anybody who criticies the fact WNBA has less support than NBA is being unfair, as they are 2 different situations. Like of course the best mens team will beat the best women's team, just like on average, though not always the sister will be with physical attributes a few percent extended over their sister, but the abilities of these female athletes is still pretty high, and coming from a different context, 

Scottish League

Its great all Scotland's teams are in the Scottish League, any idea of taking Rangers and Celtic out is not good for Scottish football, as it would make the league the 2nd tier. And that would make it less of c championship, so its better to be 3rd to them, them, than top of what would be a second tier. Unless it was for a pan European Super league top tier, and even then it would be a stop down. 

Interesting plans 

Times Scotland has seen possibilities of major League reforms since 1975, include bringing a Dublin team into the league in the late 1990s instead of Meadowbank Thistle. Plus bringing in Newcastle, Sunderland Gateshead, Carlisle, and Middleboro into a Scottish super league of the top 10 teams, separating from the res t of the league. Other have pondered a Manx, or Belfast team in the league, or even top Welsh teams, in a Celtic League, but the top Welsh teams have never needed to consider it, as their only option would be England as now, a All British League, or a just Wales league. Indeed in the 1990s the WFA tried to make Wales have all its top teams in the league but that plan failed to some extent, other than creating a interesting Welsh league 

Unfair comparisons

Another thing I think is puzzling is when a sports competition occurs, and often some commentators judge some teams achievement in it on the same level, as if they were a time and again winner of the tourney. Yes smaller teams can do well, and get far, but there should also be realism and a acceptance that maybe losing all the games bar 1, can be OK for a smaller country even though it would be poorer for a bigger country, 

Bizarre criticisism, 

Its also a strange thing to me, the amount of people who when they condemn a sportsman its always effectively the best in the sport, how many times do you see on forums, somebody putting down Messi or Ronaldo, by saying he is not the best ever, only in the top 100, as if thats anything to be ashamed of. In reality they have done as well as they can and thats pretty good. But what is most laughable is when they add terms like that players are over rated, for a player they are comparing to the best ever, I do find that daft. 

3

The Scottish League Cup, Cup and League is the oldest national treble, surely. Well its the oldest in the British Isles and top 5 European leagues. 

The English Cup 

Why not have a cup between Berwick Rangers, and TNS, to decide which is the indisputably the best team to play in the whole of England., other than the English League system, you know with Champions league winners and all that kind, but other than them. PS that was a joke of course it would really just be a bit of fun, maybe the English Teams in Celtic Leagues,  cup would be a better name, though actually TNS are half a Oswestry team, and half a really a Welsh village team in Oswestry to some extent just playing over the border, but within easy sight of  Offas Dyke's line, which used to be the border, I think Oswestry  Hillfort was part of that system, as in integrated into it, despite being older. 

Anglosphere Cup

What About A Anglosphere cup, having all English speaking teams in, 

Here is my select of a Highland Football select, all time, select, 

Goalkeeper, Nicky Walker, (1990s)

Defence, Roddie Macdonald (1980s) George Wilson (1900s) Kevin Macdonald (1970s) midfielder in defence, 

Midfield Angus Morrison (1950s) George Campbell (1980s) Stewart Armstrong (2010s) Ryan Christie, (2010s)
Strikers Duncan Shearer (1990s) John McGinlay (1990s) Ed MacDougal, (1970s)

Subs, Goalkeepers, Bryan Gunn (1980s) and Bobby Geddes (1980s), Midfielder George Lyall, (1950s) Donald Park (1980s) midfielder, Gary Mackay Steven (2020s) Strikers Charlie Christie (1980s) then of the 19th Century, Queens Park, and Morayshire etc, Andrew McCrombie, Robert Smith, Dr Macdonald and more, plus some modern Inverness Caley and Ross County players, and top Highland League players. if able to have all these players, I would say it would be good enough to challenge for the SPFL in most decades, be unlucky not to be 3rd or higher, and be disappointed to not win a cup in a decade. I say the highest Highland achievement of the football times, is Ryan Christie scoring against Serbia in the qualifying play off which Scotland then won on Penalties, for the Euro 2020 tournament. It also depends do you count the Highland line, or Highland Region, of 1970s creation, as if its the Highland line, you have guys from Banff and Moray, which seems fair. Also Stuart Armstrong is in as though born in Aberdeen, and a player away from Inverness, he was raised partly in the Inverness area. Should we put Colin Hendry in, as a Keith guy, ?., maybe if so, it becomes 4 3 3, Angus Morrison becomes a sub, And what about Eoin Jess, and Steve Patterson, well put them as subs, its hard do we count certain places as the Highlands its tough. Armstong is a Invernesian, despite being Aberdeen born. 

 

Yes Glasgow Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Fife and Ayrshire may have had more internationals, but the Highlands is a bit away from the 19th Century industrial heartland of where so much football was steam cooking the best talent. So it is has done well, and its best is modern. Probably a number of early 20th Century players were grand kids of Highlanders, seeing urbanisation, and the Clearances etc, but that's too complicated. 

Manager Jimmy Andrews (1970s) 

My prediction, 

I believe VAR will when introduced in late 2022, benefit the teams just behind the Old Firm the most, Hearts, Hibs and the Dons. As I believe it's only effects will be to cancel out a little bit of the fact that referring mistakes are a levellers, and a little bit of the home  crowd advantage of persuading referees. This will mean the Old Firm will benefit, but as they win so many games anyway, not by much, while the others will therefore benefit more as their games are closer. I am presuming those 3 have better players, than the teams below them, so will thus benefit from the leveller ways of referring mistakes being 50 50. 

Top Scottish International Football Trophies., to mid 2023 in my view, 

1 Scottish Home International Championship wins, 41 wins, of which 24 outright, Scotland also win the not official, 1946 Victory Home International Championship, and were top of the abandoned 1981 Championship. so thats 2 more, I would say.,. 

2 A Scotsman being in the Canadian Olympic team that won the first official gold in 1904, some others had Scottish links, 

3 Scotsmen being in the 1930 USA World Cup team, that finished 3rd. 

4 Finishing 9th in the 1974 World Cup 

5 Finishing 5th or 6th out of eight well 9 really,  in the 1992 European Championships, some say 5th as the winners were in other group, but Scotia had the 5th best record in the groups. 

6 Scotland winning the 1982 Under 19 European Championships

7 Scotland being Runner up in the Under 16 World Cup 1989

8 Scotland being Semi Finalists in the 1982 European Championships under 21, and 1992, 

9 Scotland being 4th in the 1996 Under 21 European Championships

10 Scotland being Runner up in the Under 19 2006 European Championships 

11 And also being 3rd in 63, 70 and 74, and 4th in 64, 69, 78., and 86, in the same competition. and semi finalists in the under 16 in 2014. 

12 Then last of all, Reaching World and Euros for men and women, and there was a Scottish woman in a Italian World Cup team that won a kind of unofficial world cup  in the 1980s, maybe the world cup qualifications and Euro qualifications are in 2nd place really, but behind those ELO rankings, Scotland reached the Mens world cup 8 times, and also qualified once but withdrew, though likely would have been let in some earlier ones if they wanted, and reached 4 European Championships up to mid 2023. The Women's team have reached 1 World Cup, and 1 European Championships. 

13 The Rous Cup 

14 The Kirin Cup

15 Winnings Nations League groups such as in 2022, 

16 Being Runner up in the 2000s, 4 team Celtic nations cup. 

17 and there was a Scottish woman in a Italian World Cup team that won a kind of unofficial world cup  in the 1980s, 

18 And having some players in British, European, and Rest of the world selects. against Wales, Rest of the world, and such. Such as one in the 1940s who scored v rest of Europe. Even a European v rets of world team. 

19 Scottish performances in Other football comps, of other types of football. 

20 Great wins over other national teams, and draws, wins over England, Germany, Italy France, the Dutch, Argentina, Uruguay, the USA, the CIS, Spain, Portugal,  etc, and a draw with Brazil. 

21 International player awards, even fan trophies, and ones won by players in other countries, like PFA, 

22 Scottish born players playing for other countries, indeed a Scottish born guy even played for England in the 19th Century, and some have played for both for Northern, and some the Republic of Ireland and of course  Canada, Australia and the USA and even  I think maybe other places/. 

In terms of seeding, Scotland highest ranking in the official 1992 and onwards world ranking, is 13th in 2007 around the time of the wins over France, you could put that honour as 5th place I say. 

In 1997 the ELO world rankings were created developed on the world chess rankings system, which can be interpreted retroactively. 

When I say, this one goes 1st, lets imagine the other ones below are not mentioned in that comparsion, of where each one goes. 

So of course Scotland and England, then Wales and All Ireland, were the only teams on the list in the 19th Century so between 1872 Scotland and 1890 Scotland were first for 15 years out of 19, you could put that as 1st place, Scotland were never 1st place in ELO rankings again, after 1891 in terms of a year though did hit in briefly in 1892, but were 2nd place and top 10, into the 1910s, a lot, which can go as a 15th place honour, By the 1920s there were loads of countries competing but Scotland were doing well and had plenty of 3rd place rankings, that can go in 4th place, even though like in 1926 and 1929, Scotland hit second and highest in Europe, with the last time Scotland were 2nd being 1930, after a win over France. With that again in 1927 after a run of Home International wins. Scotland were never out of the top 5 between mid 1922 and early 1932. The 3rd places in the 1930s, can go just behind there, as they were less, but occurred a lot late in the decade, as of wins over England and Austria. . The 1950s to 1960s lower down the table places can go in last place 15th, as a honour, OK, change that though, it seems Scotland were last 3rd place in 1951, as of wins over Belgium, France and England. and had been in 1946, so put that as 5th. But later in that decade Scotland fell behind other great footballing powers. The mid 1970s, 1977 place of 4th place on the ELO rankings, when so many more countries were playing football can probably go as 1syt place really, it was after wins over a strong Wales, Northern Ireland, Sweden, England at Wembley, Chile and a draw with Argentina, and a Win over European champions Czechoslovakia, plus a win over Bulgaria, the peak points that year were 2002 actually in February 1978, the world cup saw Scotland knocked out of the top 10. the narrow defeat to East Germany in 1977 was also to a strong side. Plus to Brazil, of course. Only Brazil, the Dutch and West Germans were above Scotland in the rankings. As of this Scotland is high on the number of days ranked 1 in world rankings.  So Scotlands greatest international honour was 4th in ELO rankings in 1977 to 78. Also McAllister of the Argentina 2022 World Cup win of then has some Scottish heritage as of his name, his ancestors came to Ireland from Scotland, but it must be tiny amount of Scottish DNA, Also Dutch players Denzel Dumfries and Roy Makaay have their names from Scottish migrants to the Netherlands influencing their surnames. Also there are Scottish Swedish heritage curlers men and women. The only country Scotland have not been above in a yearly ranking since 1945 is Brazil, and Scotland were ahead of them in 1944. and 1939. I dont think the world war era counts. 

Post 1978, Scotland hit 11th in the ELO rankings in 1986 and 1985, and 1983. So the last time Scotland were in the top 10 was mid 1978.

Wales versions to mid 2023 

1 Reaching the 2016 European Championships semi final

2 Reaching 1958 World Cup Quarter Final

3 Reaching 1976 European Championships Quarter Final

4  Winning 12 Home International Championships, 7 outright, 

5 Being 8th in Fifa ranking in 2015. 20th ELO strangely, 

6 Being 9th in ELO rankings in 1938, with numerous 10th and 11th places that decade

7 Being 12th in ELO rankings in 1981, 

8 Being 3rd in World rankings to early 1900s, well there was not many competing

9 Reaching Euros second round in 2021. 

10 Stuff the womens team did, 

11 Having players in British selects. 

12 Top wins over other national teams, like Brazil, England, Germany, 

13 Welsh connected players have played for other lands, like Michael Owen for England. 

My top British football mistakes

1 Scotland, Wales, Nire and Eng not entering the first 3 world cups

2 I mean having committees select the teams, till 1950s or 1960s, maybe it was just England, but I dont know, 

3 Scotland not taking part the 1950 world cup when they had the right to. 

4 Scotland, Nire Wales and England not entering the first European championship qualifying, and Scotland also the second, 

5  Wales letting the 1978 world cup qualifier decider be held at a neutral venue, Liverpool, not Cardiff. 

6 English teams ignoring the first European Cup 

7 English European Cup winners, often not taking part in their first chances at the Intercontinental Cups, and not bothering as much as they should when they did 

8 English European Trophy winners not taking part in some early European Super cups, 

9 Wales throwing the big teams out of the Welsh Cup, 

10 Northern Ireland not keeping Derry City in the league, 

11 Scotland ignoring the idea of a British Cup in the late 1980s, as they had expanded the league, it was a offer as English teams were out of Europe, so what a missed opportunity, Though I would say merging the league systems would possibly be a huge step that would  be bad for Scottish sovereignty, and I think Scottish football, but thats just my view, I would hate the end of the Scottish League, I say as long as only 100 Scottish football fans exist never surrender our football independence, but I like the idea of cross border cups, they are internationalist and great, even with England. I have always wondered about that, the British Cup I like the idea, with the chance of best of British, and playing big teams from England, but its one less chance for Aberdeen and Inverness to win a trophy in a way then again reaching a British Cup semi final or final might be as good in a honour list as winning a trophy, specially if unlike proper domestic cups there is a 3rd and 4th place play off. 

12 Ayr United refusing David Murrays money in the 1980s, 

13 Aberdeen refusing Jurgen Klinsman in the 1990s, 

14 The Scottish league rejecting Inverness Thistle in the 1970s, though happily it let in Caley Thistle later. 

15 Was it a mistake to have Hibs as Scotland first entry in the European Cup instead of Aberdeen the title winners, well maybe not

16 The maybe untrue allegation Scotland wore unsuitable hot kits for the 1954 world cup, 

Best Professional Rugby achievements club Scotland to mid 2024, men unless stated. 

1 Glasgow Warriors Winning the Celtic League 2015, which included Scotland, Wales and Ireland. and the United Rugby Championship in 2024, which included the Celtic league nations, them, plus Italy and South Africa. 

2 Glasgow Warriors lost in 2023 European Rugby Challenge Cup Final to  Toulon

2 Edinburgh Rugby lost in 2015  European Rugby Challenge Cup Final to Gloucester 

4 Glasgow Warriors Runner up in Celtic League URC 2012 and 2019  and Edinburgh in 2009. 

7 Edinburgh Runner ups in the Celtic Cup in 2004, one of 2 seasons it existed. 

8 Edinburgh Semi Finalist in European Cup 2012. 

9 and 10 Winner of Scottish Italian Shield, Glasgow 2023, and Edinburgh 2022, in its 2 first seasons, 

11 Scottish inter regions, South , Edinburgh, Glasgow, and North and Mid, and Exiles, wins over foreign international touring sides, some over Pacific, Argentina and Japan, and 1 South of Scotland over Australia, and 2 draws with South Africa at least, 

Top Scottish Domestic football club achievements in my 2023 view

1 Celtic 1967 European Cup 2 Rangers and Aberdeen ECWC wins, 4 Celtic EC final 1970s 5 Rangers Dundee United and Celtic other European Finals, all 6, 11 Aberdeen Super Cup 1983 Win, 12 Celtic Intercontinental Championship 1960s Runner Up, 13 Rangers Super Cup Runners up 1970s, 14 Renton World Champions 15 Hibs World Champions, 16 Celtic1 Coronation Cup and Empire Exhibition Trophy, 1930s and 1950s,  18 Celtic British Cup 1900s, 19 Dumbarton 1880s UK Champions, 20 Hearts 1900s World Champions Cup., 21 Queens Park London Charity Shield Winners, 22 Queens Park Fa Cup Runners ups, 23 Rangers British Cup Runner up 1900s, 24 1930s British Cup, Rangers, 25 Hibs Coronation Cup runner Up, 26 Celtic 4, Rangers kind of 2,  (Including 3rd place in terms of Groups standing at the 8 member 1992 Champions league of 2 groups of 4, IFK had less pts, and Rangers groups of 4 had the winner), Hibs 1 Dundee 1, Dundee Utd 1, E Cup Semi, 27 Aberdeen, US NASL League Runners Up, 28 Other European Trophy semi finals, Celtic 3, Rangers 5,  Kilmarnock 1, Dundee 1, Dunfermline 1, Aberdeen 2, Dundee United 3, 29 European Cup Quarter Finals, Hibs 1, Celtic 9, Rangers 5 including 1992, Dundee 1, Dundee United 1, Aberdeen 1, 30 Other European Trophy Quarter Finals, Celtic 7, Rangers, 7, Kilmarnock 1, Dundee 1, Dunfermline 3, Hibs 1, Hearts 1, Dundee United 3, 30 Scottish Wins with Liverpool, players and managers, 31 Scottish wins with Man Utd, Players and Managers, though Fergie achieved the most as a individual in English football, 32, Scottish wins with Aston Villa, mostly 19th C, 33 Scottish wins with Newcastle, mostly managers 34, Scottish wins with Sunderland, 35 Scottish wins with Arsenal, 36 Scottish wins with Nottingham Forrest, 37 Scottish wins with Borussia Dortmund, 40 Scottish wins with Derby County, 41 Great Friendly wins, 42 Scottish wins with Barcelona, 43 Helping found other clubs across the world, 44, Scottish wins with Leeds United, 45 Scottish wins with other clubs in England, 46 Scottish wins with other clubs in Wales, Cardiff City and Welsh League, 47 Scottish wins with Northern Irish and Republic of Ireland clubs, and Isle of Man, 48 Scottish wins with other clubs worldwide, 49 Scottish Challenge cup wins, 50 Hearts Runners up in World Championship to Sunderland, 51 Hibs runner up in UK championship friendly, v Aston Villa, 52 Dundee, Tennents Sixes winner (Had Notts Forrest one year) 53 Texaco Cup Winners, surely much higher really maybe 44, 54 Texaco Cup Anglo Scottish Cup Runners up, 55 US Scots and Canada and Aussie Scots team wins, 56 London Caledonian Amateur cup wins Amateur Cup 1920s,, 57 Gretna reach FA Cup 58 Rangers reach FA CUP semi finals, maybe 35th really, 19th Century, 59 Berwick Rangers and Tweedmouth Rangers being in Scottish League, maybe 32nd really, 60 Other things, like QOS in Foreign cups, and all sorts, other minor foreign friendly cups etc etc Celtic and Rangers would win, or Aberdeen 1903 cup win , and beating Viking in a friendly for their cup, and Hearts playing Barca in a friendly, probably important European comp wins over great teams goes in 32ns, 60 Queens Cup FA Cup semi finals, 19th century, 61 Motherwell Manx Cup Wins, 62 Celtic 1910s Cup win in Central Europe, Also maybe Preston Scottish achievements go 40th, and maybe Everton 42nd, Plus Blackburn 45, and Tottenham 44, and West Ham 46, and Birmingham 48, and Chelsea 49, Barcelona 50, other clubs like Plymouth and Bolton fused in rest. plus internationals who played for other great clubs and countries, And lastly helping host a Euros and helping host Champions League finals, and a Under 16 World Cup, , Plus the Scottish League Select's games which were against loads of leagues, even the Scotland team. Plus the results by Glasgow select , I put friendly results above the top ones like by Motherwell, and Aberdeen, Hibs etc. And Edinburgh select. And also Scottish league v French league tournament, clubs v clubs winning 1 of its tournaments out of 2. St Mirren Anglso Scottish other cups, 

Also Draws

I wonder if draws count more in the Scottish Premier, as there are less teams in it, so you are likelier at the end of the season to be 1 or 3 pts in front or behind more teams in more important positions and as the season reaches its close most teams can take advantage of a 1 pt lead to draw with rivals and or not lose to them, and though needing to win, can cause a team to try harder, I think usually that benefits the other team, as then they can take advantage by playing for a draw, or time wasting or counter attacks, but for the top 2 or 3, a draw begins to become lost points if you are challenging for the title, but also draws may count more as you play the same team more than in leagues with more teams. STILL  a win is MUCH BETTERNESS.

Top 10 Welsh Club football achieves to 2023, outside of Welsh league football system, 

1 Cardiff City FA Cup 1927

2 Swansea City League Cup 2013 

3 Cardiff City English League Title Runner Up 1924 

4 Cardiff City ECWC Cup Semi Final 1968 

5 Cardiff City 1971 ECWC Quarter Final 

6 Wrexham 1976 ECWC Quarter Final 

7 Newport County ECWC Quarter Final 1981

8 Cardiff City FA Cup Runners up, 1925, and 2008, 

9 Cardiff City League Cup Runner Up 2012

10 Cardiff City Charity Shield 1927 

11 Wrexham Welsh cup 23 Times, 

12 Cardiff City Welsh Cup 22 Times

13 Swansea City 10 times

14 Bangor City 3 Times when it had English teams as well, 

15 Merthyr Tydfil 3 times ditto, 

16 The lower leagues in England

17 The lower cups in English system, and Scottish Challenge Cup Runner up, and Manx Cup Wins etc, Such as by Wrexham, Bangor, etc. 

18 Friendlies wins by Welsh clubs

19 Internationals who played for the clubs, and a small number of English teams play in the Welsh league, and Chester are partly over into the Welsh border. ...........,,,,,,,,,

20 Helping Host FA cup and League Cup finals, and a Champions League and Super Cup, 

21 Swansea have reached FA Cup semi final twice, and Wrexham a FA Cup Quarter Final, to 2023. 

22 Wins as part of top English teams, Man Utd and Liverpool etc, 

23 Wins as part of top Continental and Scottish teams, Hartson with Celtic, and Rush with Juventus and Mark Hughes etc, 

24 Having English teams in the Welsh cup from Bristol to Wellington Kidderminster, Crewe, and Liverpool, and further West.  

25 Having a Welsh league select play well in some games. The only time the 1950s one played the Scottish league, they won, Though the Welsh rightly picked some football league players, playing for Welsh teams. I always feared it was that Welsh non league of the 1950s, so that is a relief it was the top teams. Scottish fans point to a better head to record in Europe Wal v Sco clubs, and Scottish teams winning all the Challenge cups so far. And Scotland's league did draw with a Italian league team containing Charles & Law in 1961. Scottish league also lost to the army select, but the national side have beaten them at times. The first match between a Scottish & Welsh club side, was 1877 when Queens Park paid expenses for Druids of Wrexham to travel to Hampden Park, QP won 3 0.  It was a week before the Welsh Cup started.

Brazil football national to mid 2024

1 5 World Cups, 

2 4 Confederation Cups

3 9 Copa America

4 2 Championship Pan America

5 2 Olympic Golds 

6 2 World Cup Runner Ups

6 2 World Cup Third Places

7 2 World Cup 4th Places,

8 3 Olympic silvers

9 2 Olympic Bronzes, 

10 4 Pan American Games, 

11 53 Trophies, similar in scale, to cups v Argentina and Rous Cup, 

12 12 Copa America Runner ups, 

13 7 Copa America 3rd places 

14 3 Copa America 4th places, 

15 3rd in 1998 Womens World Cup all other above is mens, 

16 Silver in 2008 and 2012 Olympic Games, womens, 

17 4th  in 1996, 2000, and 2016 Womens Olympic Games, 

18 9 Womens Copa Americas and 1 Runner up, that is all the female Copa Americas, 

19 Runner up in Concacaf Championship for ladies, 2000, not even Brazils federation, 

20 2 Pan American female, golds

21 1 Pan American Female runner up 

22 5 Youth World Cups, Mens, 

23 4 Mens Youth World Cup Runner Ups, and some 3rds

24 12 Under 20 South American championships for males. and much more, Futsal other youth, and Beach football,  and indoor,  

25 Having players play for other countries

26 Hosting world cups ,,.

27 Helping Host C0pa Americas

28 Helping Host Olympic Finals

29 Helping host womens world cups 2027

30 Top wins over other National teams

31 Players of the year awards of world, 

32 Player of years awards in other leagues, 

33-40 More of them like top scorers in other countries, and wins over loads of lands, from South America, to Europe and more, like even Spain, and Portugal, 

Poland

2 World Cup 3rd Places, 

And top wins over other nationals teams, 

Top Northern Ireland club achievements in Europe, including their Irish neighbours, not that they arnt Irish, 

1 . Linfield 13 Irish Cups and about as many Irish leagues, when it was All Ireland, 

2 Linfield 4, Glenavon, 1, Crusaders 1, Glentoran 1, Ards 1, Coleraine 2, North South Cup and Blaxnit Cup, Tyler Cup, and Setanta Cups, 

3 Linfield 1966-67 European Cup Quarter Final, after beating Lux, Nor, and Bulg teams, 

4 In 1969-70 Glentoran beat Arsenal 1 0 at home, but lost 3 1 on agg, to the eventual winners of the Fairs Cup, 

5 In 1970-71 Coleraine knocked out Kilmarnock in Europe, the 1 times out of 10 a Nire team, got through against a Scottish league team, and Killie knocked out a Nire team a other year. 

6 In 1970-71 Linfield beat defending champs,  of the ECWC, Man City 2 1 but lost on Away goals rule as they lost the other leg, 

7 in 1966-67 Glentoran drew with eventual finalists of the ECWC Rangers, but lost the next leg, 

8 in 1967 68 Linfield beat Leipzig  but lost on agg, as of a 5 1 defeat

9 in 1984 Linfield lost by 1 goal at home to Benfica, and beat Copenhagen once 3 - but lost the next leg 4 0. and Cliftonville limited Celtic to a 2 0 lose, in the 2010s, they have knocked out and been knocked out by Welsh teams, have Nire teams. 

10 Annoyingly for Scots like me Belfast Celtic beat a Scotland team, in New York 2 0, in 1949, but on the other hand, Celtic beat Belfast Celtic 3 2 in Belfast in 1952, and loads of other times beat them, Belfast teams and selects, and in terms of Scottish league select v Irish league select, including when it was All Ireland, the Scottish league lead up to 2024, 56-5 with 1 draw, and a 8- 2, 8 1 twice and  and 7 - 0 twice. but the first game was a win for All Ireland, in 1893, only twice were N Ire leagues the winners, and the last match was a Scottish league win 4 - 2 in Belfast, and the last win at Scotland, as the 2nd last was a draw, was a 5 - 2 win at Ibrox, players like Fergie and Harper were on the score sheets, and Mortons Ritchie, in times past with a 7 0 win in the 1960s.  The league select also lost to Hibs in the 1980s and Kilmarnock in the 1990s, well remember what this page is about, but also drew with the Scottish league in 1978, and lost 54 times, drew 6 and won 3 v the English football league, of which the last win was the 1950s, tjhe eleague select also beat Canada, 

11 Also a Norn Irish team Crusaders reached the Scottish Challenge Cup semi, but that does not really get high on that list I only count it as I am me, but considering the money Norn Ireland sends to Scottish football they deserve a trophy there one day, though I think Celtic and Rangers can thank Norn Irish fans for a lot of their wins, as of their money, which is not a insult,  

12 Norn Irish teams in the FA Cup of England, Cliftonville beat Blackburn Park Road, 7 2 in the 1880s, beat another English team, but were knocked out by Partick, this the third round, out of 8 of the official comp, was the furthest a Irish team ever reached, Linfield drew with Nottingham Forrest in the 1880s, Distiliery reached the second round despite not winning a game, plus later in their escapdes , and lost  to Bolton 10 -2 in the 1890s, and a few entered qualifying rounds, Celtic even beat the Irish Free state league in the 1930s, 

On the subject of league Selects the Scottish league beat the English league, 19 times, drew 14 and lost 42, times. but Glasgow xi beat it the only time it played. The Scottish league beat a Danish league select 1 out of 1, drew twice and lost once to Serie a, and beat the Republic of Ireland league,  17 times, lost three and lost two. 

The Women's Netball Special worlds most successful teams to August 10th 2023, Combined Women's Netball World Cup and Netball at the Commonwealth Games Women's competition placings. From seven Commonwealth Games and sixteen world cups. 

1 Australia, 16 Golds, 7 silvers, Zero Bronzes or Fourths, (1 shared gold, included) (1 shared Silver included) out of 23 ever competitions, 23 medals, 23 Top 4s, 

2 New Zealand, 7 Golds, 11 Silvers, 3 Bronzes, 2 Fourths,  (1 shared gold included) 21 medals, 23 Top 4s, 

3 England, 1 Gold, 2 Silvers, 9 Bronzes, 11 Fourths,  12 medals, 23 Top 4s,  

4 Jamaica, 0 Golds, 1 Silver, 7 Bronzes, 6 Fourths (1 shared fourth),  8 medals, 14 Top 4s, 

5 Trinidad and Tobago, 1 Gold, 1 Silver, 1 Bronze, 3 Fourths,  (1 shared gold, included) (1 shared Silver included) (1 shared fourth included) 3 medals, 6 Top 4s, 

6 South Africa, 0 Golds, 1 Silvers, 1 Bronze, 2 Fourths,  2 medals, 4 Top 4s,. 

So thats 69 medals, its OK. So thats 25 golds., yes its ok, as 1 was  were shared with 3, 23 silvers, yes its ok, as the shared one, was discounted by no silver on the shared gold, and only 21 Bronzes, OK, as no Bronze was given out on the years the Gold and silvers were shared, and 93 Top 4s, its OK, as 1 year the fourth was shared. My maths are correct. 

Iffy stats by me on this paragraph. Only 7 countries have finished 5th, Jamaica, Malawi, Trinidad and Tobago, Cook Islands, Samoa and Uganda, and South Africa, of which Jamaica and South Africa have the lead of those, and 12 countries have finished 6th, South Africa and Malawi lead on those, These countries include, Barbados, Canada, Saint Christopher-Nevis-Anguilla, South Africa, Fiji, Malawi, Uganda, Samoa, and again the NZ territory of the Cook Islands. Plus Wales and Scotland. 

I think the biggest surprises, is England, getting so many 3rd and 4th, and so few top 2s historically maybe as NZ and Aus were so far ahead, with Eng, so far ahead of most lands behind them. Plus I think Caribbean islands have done well as maybe the level of professionalism means that a island of less than 100,000 people can create a team, as good the majority of good top level club teams, across the world, as professionalism, is not at 1 million people city levels yet, as of less money than football and rugby, so the top level most teams and players play in historically. But so much as now, now that Australian, NZ and British super leagues get better and better. So maybe thats why the 4 areas of power were, NZ Aus rivalry, then Eng, with a bit of Sco Wales and Nire, and South Africa, with some African states, like Uganda and Malawi with them, then Caribbean sides competing against eachother, so making Jamaica strong. There may be a sign that the competition has been getting less stratified in positions of late, with teams moving up and down from regular fixed positions in the list in more recent years, which may or may not be good, most people say it makes it better. 

Scotland's best is 6th in the 1971, and 1975 (Shared), and 1983  World Netball Championships, 

Wales best is 6th in the 1975 (Shared) World Netball Championships, and 6th in the 2002 Commonwealth Games. 

Countries that have held these competitions include, England, Australia, New Zealand, Trinidad and Tobago, Singapore, Scotland, South Africa, and Malaysia and India.  

There were also 3 Netball tourneys at the World games, of 1985, 1989, and 1993, for sports without Olympic representation, they ended up  NZ 2 Golds, 1 Silver, Aus 1 Gold, 2 Silvers, Jamaica 2 Bronze, England 1 Bronze, 2  fourths, Cook Islands 1 4th, Scotland 2 fifths, Canada 1 5th,  Nire, 1 6th,  Fiji 1 6th, Wales 1 6th, and its only 6 teams in all 3 tourneys, so you can add that to the list or make it a decider on draws. But no T & T, Jamaica miss 2. no African sides, means maybe its not a full worlds, held in England, Germany and the Netherlands. If the Commonwealth Games is ended as nobody wanting to hold it maybe it would be ignored as well, but for now as non Commonwealth USA are not superb, its really a worlds as well, with top African to everywhere teams. The world games did lack a real global flavour, but did have the best 3 sometimes 4, teams allowed to play sport at international level. 

Another Scottish football anomaly, from above, 

31, Why did Rangers, not do better in Europe, in the big spending David Murray era. I mean Rangers were buying Everton players, one of the Big 5 in England at the time, England international after the English brief ban from Europe, plus in the mid 90s, Gasgone and Laudrop, and late 90s, some Italian players, and even a debate on who well maybe buying Brazilian Ronaldo. . Well possibly is it is as Scottish football, maybe as of the decline of street football, stopped producing so many great stars from the mid 1980s, and early 1990s, and more so from the 2000sm and  only stopped after a climb in quality from 2015 I say. So yes, Aberdeen, and Dun Utd has great early and mid 80s, with Dun Utd great to 1987 and Hearts even got a QF in 1989, but maybe you could say it is as they were only playing 2 or 3 sides to get those QFs, but the teams they played were normally the best teams from the best countries, when everybody from Hungary to Belgium had teams as good as most of the best teams in the top 5 leagues, best teams, so it was amazing even then to get that far in 2 leg tourneys. Whereas now it is more o f a closed shop as of satellite TV money and Bosman rulings and stuff like that.  Well you look at the rest of Scottish football and after 1987 Aberdeen and Dundee Ut started failing to reach Qfs, and after 1989 even Hearts did, indeed Celtic failed to after the early 80s, and failed to make a impression in Europe till the late 90s, by which the rest of Scotland's clubs other than Rangers were now nowhere near QFs as of the changes in the tourneys formats and money. So in that 1986 - 1996 era, when Rangers were spending huge, and Celtic a little behind most of the time, in spending we saw Scottish football turn from QF reachers, to clubs that other than Rangers or Celtic, were now happy just to get a game versus a top club, who was normally now much richer than them. In that era, Rangers got one European Cup QF, there first QF since the 70s, and a equivalent of a QF SF, in the European Cup, then some qualifications for the CL, in the mid 1990s, where they were crushed, 1 strong result against a Russian side, and respectable performance against Serie a, best league in the world at the time, Parma, and then strangest of all, their European Final coming at the end of the Dvaid Murray era, when they had less money. Well I explain it by how Scottish football had declined, and money from the mid 80s, and internationalising of pooling of top talent for top European sides, If you look at Scottish football in the 1980s, yes Aberdeen and Dundee Utd achieved great results, Celtic were OK, no real achievements but OK., and nobody else other than Rangers got into Europe that much as those teams dominated. But in the 1990s, Aberdeen and Dundee United had some embarrassing defeats in Europe, and some narrow defeats, to sides they may have beaten in the 1980s, while Hearts, and Motherwell, and Celtic in the early 90s, did not replace them as QF reachers, and also at best had narrow defeats to top teams, other than 1989. Maybe other smaller West European countries took a little while longer to start falling behind top 5 times, than Scotland did, and maybe the Eastern European countries getting more entries hit Scotland harder, as they were of a similar level, so more teams to beat Scottish teams. Then by the late 90s, all except Rangers and Celtic in Scottish football were miles behind in wealth top 5 league , teams, So in the 1990s, if you take away the Old Firm, Scottish teams were now getting nowhere in Europe, by the late 90s, now they were honoured to scrape a respectable knock out to top teams, which comparing the wealth they should be. Meanwhile Celtic came back in the late 90s, almost knocking out Liverpool, and in the 2000s, the Old Firm excelled in Europe both reaching finals. Looking at it that way, Rangers, equivalent of 2 Quarter Finals, in the 1987 to 2000 era, and 1 semi final, the last time a Scottish side got that far in the European Cup, was a achievement after all. And the fact in the end they reached a European Final, made it all worth the effort. What is weird is it was 2 of the less glamorous sides who achieved those 3 achievements. The early 90s, team that was not allowed more than a few foreigners, as of the 4 foreigners rule, and the late 2000s, team, that was economically much poorer than most of the best teams in Europe, unlike many of the 90s competitors. Perhaps that is because maybe the 4 foreigner rule was not that bad for Rangers, as it also limited their rivals, and the Uefa Cup run was when Scottish champions could drop into the Uefa cup just before Scottish money again dropped further behind European top leagues after 2010. Whereas their 90s Rangers teams could only play the top Champions League sides. Also its strange the Laudrop Gazza team did not to better. But perhaps that side was in retrospect better than the disappointing performance it was thought to be. After all it was a 16 team group stages event, they got some pts, English teams were struggling then as we. And actually before then after the brilliant early 90s campaign they were struggling to get in, so maybe they needed the money just to get this far. After all few teams from Scotland have reached the last 16 of the European Cup since then. So maybe in retrospect it was a good run, considering the top 5 leagues were getting better, and other European Countries, all had good champions as well. So maybe in retrospect, 1 Proper European Cup Quarter Final in the 1980s, a good number of times reaching the Champions League, a equivalent of a semi Final in 1990s, and a Uefa Cup final in the 2000s, was a achievement. And maybe the big name signings of the 90s, the great achievement of them was the 9 in a row, when Celtic were coming back. Maybe if they had not bought Laudrop and Gazza, they would have achieved no more CLS, group stages in the mid 1990s and late 90s, and maybe they would have even have not even won the 9 in a row.

Assists

My idea, is, the stats for football matches, should count the last player of that team, who kicked the ball, as a assist when the opposing team scores a own goal, and people hacked down for penalties the fact they made a penalty should be classed as a assist. Though some people do count them. The BBC Scotland analyst gave Andy Robertson one for the own goal Vs England in 2023-24. 

Combined Inverness Caledonian Thistle Honours list, to Mid 2023, 

1 Scottish Cup 

1 Scottish League Cup Runner Up, 

1 Scottish Cup Runner Up, 

1 Scottish Top tier third place

2 Scottish 2nd tier titles, 1 Runner up, 

1 Scottish Third Tier, Runner up, 

1 Scottish 4th Tier, 

3 Scottish Challenge Cups, 1 shared, and 1 Runner up, 

26 Highland Leagues, 18 Caley, 8 Thistle, 

4 North of Scotland Cups, plus 20 Caley, and 13 Thistle so, 37. 

5 C plus 3 T so 8 Highland League Cups, 

14 plus 4 so 18  North of Scotland Qualifying Cups, 

19 plus 19 plus 8 Inverness Cups so 46. 

Giant killers

Isnt it interesting that in Scotland, most giant killings are still giant killings decades later, a Fraserburgh win over Dundee is still a big results 50 years later, ditto any win over Celtic. The only exception may be Inverness over Kilmarnock, in the 1980s, but even that was just Thistle, and Kilmarnock are still big. But in England some of the major ones, are reversible, like Newcastle v Hereford, yes thats still a big result decades later, but Luton in the 1980s could lose to Bournemouth in a giant killing, and 20 years later, the reverse is a giant killing, as they have swapped divions, then 20 years later, they are the same division, the top tier. Its like how I still say Scotland rugby team has never done, or been a victim of a real shock result in the Rugby World Cup yet. 

Gripes

Aberdeen, Dundee United, Leeds United twice, and Derby, even Liverpool, all have fans who have  claims, they could have got further in European competitions, if not for iffy refereeing situations, nuge wink, though most of them also claim the said matches, well they were well beaten in. I dont know if its is fair or unfair, as we only hear their sides of the story, so wont say the other teams names, and I am sure these things wing in roundabouts, even Rangers kind of have one claim..Celtic  have fans who claim it about lost of domestic matches. And so do the Italian football team, they claim it about certain results. I am not sure if I believe any of the claims or not, but it would be funny to watch a game, where the referee, was of a certain things going on with the referee, and it was blatantly obvious, then again Rangers talk about Marseille who finished above them in the Champions League in 1992, group stage, where a winner got to a final, being later found guilty of some stuff, meaning they could be not just a semi finalist claim but a 3rd place but winner. On the other hand Rangers won a wartime cup over Hibs on a coin toss, and a European tie, and in 1967 v Zaragoza, and in the early 70s, got through after the referee forgot to realise away goals counted more, in those days, so the pens were scrubbed, Aberdeen were the first team ever in European football to go out on penalties. 

Sadly for Scotland

Man Utd youth did win a Glasgow Charity cup in the 1960s, which had become for youth teams, yes they were managed by a Scotsman, but I think thats the only time I know of other than really part Scottish Berwick winning titles, of Scotland, from places outside Scotland. 

Almost titles 

Hearts 1986 and Aberdeen 1991, I count as their almost titles, 

Olympics I love these sports in this greatest world festival, that celebrate the fastest. strongest most skilful, etc, and volleyball and basketball are great with all these tall folk, the best, but what about a sport that celebrates being shorter like horse riding, faster, stronger further is better, but all these are useful in daily life, I mean in mines in the Iron Age, shortness was useful. 

Interesting other anomly. 

England's top strikers of the 1980 to 2023, era, Lineker, Shearer, Rooney, Kane, well 3 out of 4 won less trophies than could be expected. I say it is as the best teams had the best strikers rom across the world or the British Isles, so actually the ones they won, were OK amounts, even Lineker, who went half his career at Leicester, and won a reasonable amount of trophies for a 1980s Everton players, 1 Charity Shield, and a normal amount for 1980s,  Barca, 1 ECWC and a Cup, and a above average amount for Spurs a FA Cup. Its just Liverpool dominated so much, Ditto for Man City in 2010 V Kane, and Man Utd v Shearer in 1990s. Also Charlie Nicholas felt the same, he had less trophies, but he won a good amount for a early 80s Celtic player, and late 80s Aberdeen player, and mid 80s Arsenal player. Just not so good for a Celtic player in early 90s, as you would have expected them to have won much more then. Its less common in Scotland as few Scottish strikers stay at the same Scottish club for long, if its not Rangers or Celtic, where they would likely win trophies, or they go to a lower English team, less venerated so proud of maybe a Play off win or something. 

Top Welsh Rugby Club achieves outside domestic, in Professional era, to mid 2023

1 Well actually the amateur wins of Bridgend, Llanelli,  Cardiff, Swansea, over top nations, like NZ, Aus, SA, etc in pre Professional era, 

2 Cardiff European Challenge Cup winners 2010, and 2018, over Toulon and Gloucester, 

3 Cardiff European Cup runners up, 1996, Heineken Cup, 

4 Pontypridd Challenge Cup Runners up 2002, 

5 Llanelli 2004, Ospreys, 2005, 2007, 2010, 2012, Scarlets 2017, Celtic League Winners, URC, 

6 Ospreys Win Anglo Welsh Cup 2008, and Cardiff 2009, Cardiff Blues, I should say, 

7 Neath, Cardiff twice, Scarlets, being runners up to 2023, in Celtic League, 

8 Llanelli and Ospreys 2006 2007 Runners up Anglo Welsh Cup 

9 Llanelli being Celtic Cup runners up, 2005, 

10 Cardiff, Swansea, and Llanelli winning the Welsh Scottish League in its 3 seasons, of existence, turn of the century, 

Top Welsh Rugby National achieves , mens unless otherwise stated,  up to May 8th 2024, 

1 12 Grand Slams in 5 and 6 Nations, 

2 3rd in 1987 Rugby World Cup 

3 28 Home 5 or 6 nations of which 11 shared, 

4 Ranked Number 1, in 2019, 

5 4th place in 2011 and 2019, Rugby World Cups, 

6 Quarter Finals 4 times in Rugby World Cup, 

7 2009 Sevens World Cup Victory Winners 

8 2013 Rugby Under 20s World Champion Runners up 

9 World Under 20, 3rd 2012, 

10 World Under 20 4th 2008, 

11 World Under 19 2007, 4th, 

12 Wales 1994 Womens World Cup 4th, 

13 OK maybe test wins against certain sides, goes higher, like over Argentina, etc, and getting players in the British and Irish Lions, 

14 And the Olympic Team, 

15 Helping host Rugby World Cups, 

16 5th in 2 Commonwealth Games Rugby sevens

16 5th in Rugby World Cup Sevens 2013, 

17 Winning 22 Mens Triple Crowns

18 Winning Womens 6 Triple Crown in 2009. 

Anglo Scottish floodlit league

There was in the 1950s 2 -3 seasons of a Anglo Scottish floodlit league to take advantage of floodlights, Hibs have a claim to have won the super unofficial dry run one, then Newcastle, then Tottenham, but none of the seasons had completed games, the SFA made sure all games were friendlies, and there were only 3 teams from each country, Spurs, Man City, Newcastle Hearts and Hibs, Linfield joined in the friendlies, even the English FA cracked down on it as well. 

Which political regimes have won the most  world cups, up to early 2023, football of course.  And also I better say it is the mens ones I am mentioning. 

Democracies, 18 (Many political wings of idealogy and ideaologies) Dictatorships, 4 (All  right wing) 

Centre Left Democracy 8  centre 5  centre Right democracy 5 (No hard right)

Republic 18 Monarchy 4

In Runner ups, its Republics 16, Monarchies, 4, plus 1 without a sovereign, 

8 European Union members have won the world cup at the time of being a member, with 12 Runner ups, 

For Rugby its Democracy every single one, and 2 by Republics, out of 9. Up to August 2023. 

And Euros, 

Democracies 14 Dictatorships 3 (2 Communist 1 Fascist) 

Centre left 7 democracy centrist 1 centre right democracy 6 

Republic 11, monarchy 5 plus 1 Monarchy without a sovereign, upto August 2024

In Runner ups, 13 - 4, for Republic v Monarchy, 

And Copa America

Republics 48, Monarchies 0, Upto August 2024, 48 Runner ups, 

Confederations Cup 

Republics 9 Monarchies 1 upto August 2024, 

Panamerican Championshios

Republics 3 Monarchies 0

Copa America Centenerio

Republics 1, 

Copa Centenario Revolución de Mayo

Republics 1

Conembol - UEFA cup of champions up to August 2024

Republics 3 Monarchies 0, and runner ups, Republics leading by 2 1 

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Scottish Teams

Also North America had some Scottish teams, that won titles, the Scottish-Americans won some 1930s US national titles, and the Toronto Scottish won Canadian leagues the same decade, there was also a London Caledonians soccer team, in the lower reaches of the English league historically, and were good in Amateur football in the early 20th Century. 

OBE

The First OBE was presented at Ibrox, yes that Old Firm, but still a proud fact for Scottish football. 

Famous Crafty plays - possibles 

Aberdeen spying on Ipswich during half time, and winning the game knowing their tactics, Maradona hand ball, hand of God, Jordan stating it was a Welsh player in the 1970s World Cup qualifers, for the penalty, Suarez handling the ball in the world cup, causing a penalty that was saved, so qualifying, Martinez and Grobellar goally moves to put off opposition in 80s world cup and 2022 world cup, Aberdeen feigning a free kick mix up v Bayern Munich then quickly scoring, Rangers stealing Mo Jo from Celtic the day after he signed for them,  The famous Italian time wasting tactic of goalies kicking the ball to the side of the box then picking it up when the opponent arrives I saw that from a San Marinoese team, and Aberdeen again, send a player to the other side of the pitch when he is being subbed so a longer walk, when winning at the end of the match, Aberdeen did that under McInnes, nit that he advised it, I am sure he was appalled it was occurring, histing the Scottish Challenge Cup final v Connahs Quay, in Inverness, for Ross County, helping the Scottish team, which made sense as fewer fans would have arrived in Wales. As many say Aberdeen players were advised to say sorry about last week to Hearst players in the 86 Cup Final, re their last minutes loss to Dundee and the title. And didnt Warnock put a Scottish central defender in attack and they scored lots of goals one season. as they lacked such strikers.  I dont count the act V Zidane, in Italys world Cup win, as that was maybe too far, but what do I know. Maybe all these were disgraceful, except the Scottish ones, they were crafty. Failed but clever plays include a Celtic player told a Inverness player not to miss before he scored beat them, and then won the cup final, and well all sorts of things have occurred. I mean violence for instance is too far I say, not sportsmanship, and most say the claim Wolves used monkey chemicals injected in them was wrong, and untrue when they won loads of titles, and ones where people are doing cheating and breaking laws are also wrong I am sure. Diving is too obvious. Then again what about Ronaldos one against Rooney that was pretty condemned. And surely I cannot commend the Cameroon move to hack down the Argentinian players when they were leading in the 1990s world cup, even getting professional fouls, as that is physical, so maybe that again is too far as I sometimes wonder if pulling shirts and fouls and that kind of thing in football should be more than sending off. But seeing it was legal it was a last gasp move that had some sense, but I cannot commend it really can I, mean the German goally v the French striker in the 1982 semi final, really should have been a penalty goal like rugby, if they changed the rules. But I am sure the Germans have done some crafty moves in football as well. 

Welsh Club sides best honours upto July 2024

1 Cardiff City 1 FA Cup, 2 Runners Ups, and 1 English league title runner up, 1 English second tier, 1 English Football league cup runner up, 1 Charity Shield, 22 Welsh Cups, 1 FAW premier cup, 1 English 3rd, and 1 English 4th tier, 1 English third tier south, so maybe 4th tier really, 10 Welsh Cup Runner ups, 1 European Cup Winners Cup Semi, and 2 Quarters, including where they then got to that semi. 

2 Swansea City 1 English League Cup , 1 English second tier, 2 Football league trophies,  10 Welsh cup,  2 faw premier Cups, 3 third tier souths, so maybe 4th tier really, and 1 4th tier.  8 Welsh Cup runner ups, 

3 Wrexham 1 Football league Trophy, 1 FA trophy, 2 Runner ups, 4 FAW Premier Cups 3 runner ups,  23 Welsh Cups, 1 English Third tier, 1 English fifth tier,  also 22 Runner ups in the  Welsh cup is a record, 1 European Cup Winners Cup Quarter Final, 

4 Newport AFC 1 FA Trophy 1 Welsh cup when it was national,  1 FAW premier Cup, 1 European Cup Winners Cup Quarter Final,  1 FAW Trophy Runner up, 1 English third tier when it was split into a north and south, they won the south, so maybe 4th tier really, 2 Welsh Cup Runner ups, 

5 Bangor City 3 Welsh cups when it was national, 5 when it restricted the top teams, modern Welsh League 3 times, 2 FA Trophy Runner ups, 6 Welsh Cup Runner ups when it was national,

6 Merthyr Tydfil 3 Welsh Cups when it was national, 2 runner ups, 

7 Druids 8 National Welsh Cups, 

8 Chirk AAA  5 National Welsh Cups 

9 TNS Oswestry Town FC Llansantffraid (If  unlike everybody else in England you can count Oswestry in Wales, as it is partly over Offa's boundary, ) 1 FAW Premier cup, 2 National Welsh cups, 16 modern Welsh leagues,  9 Welsh Cups, 10 Welsh League Cups, 1 Scottish Challenge Cup Runner up, 

10 Newtown 2 National welsh Cups, 2 Welsh league cup runner ups 

11 Barry Town, 1 National Welsh cup and 5 post national, 4 modern Welsh league cups, 1 FAW Premier cup, 7 Modern Welsh Leagues, 

12 Connahs Quay 2 modern Welsh leagues, 2 Welsh Cups, 2 Welsh League Cups, Scottish Challenge Cup Runner up, 

13 Rhyl 2 National Welsh cups, 2 post that,  2 Welsh leagues, 2 Welsh League Cups, 1 FAW Premier Runner up, 

Cwmbran and Llanelli have also won the modern Welsh League, with Bala 3 times runners up, but maybe I would put a national Welsh cup winner above them, its tough to say. 4 Welsh cup runner ups all when it was national, Aberdare Athletic 4 national Welsh Football association, runner ups, 

Top Scottish Rugby National achieves to mid 2024

1 Three Grand Slams in 5 Nations

2 14 Wins of the Home / 5/ 6 Nations Championships, of which 8 Shared

3 4th at 1991 Rugby World Cup 

4 Plus 6 more Quarter Finals to 2023 July, in World Cup, 

5 5th in World Rankings 2018 and 2023. 

6 3rd in Six Nations, 5 times. 

7 Multiple times runner up in home and 5 Nations, 

8 5th in 2005 Rugby World Cup Sevens, 

9 2009 Nations Cup win

10 Test Victories, as in series, like over Argentina, 

11 Finising 6th in Commonwealth Games twice up to 2023 Rugby sevens, 

12  and getting players in the British and Irish Lions, and Olympics, well maybe, 

13 Helping host Rugby World Cups 

14 Winnings 10 Mens Triple Crowns, 

14 Winnings only Grand Slams in Womens in 1998. Only title to now. So including a triple crown. 

15 Having Scots born player in NZ team, that lost the 2023 World Cup Final in rugby. 

16 Scotland under 20s winning the World under 20 trophy, the second tier world rugby event for mens youth, and being 3rd in its six nations once, out of many attempts.  

17 Having argument Scotland invented rugby 

For Scottish football anomoies, 26 above In Scottish cups it was 15 10 Celtic v Rangers in 45, so they were only winning half the cups in thoe early 20th C, or just less, Rangers caught up but were overtaken in the 60s, and 25-23 in 79, and in 2000 31 29 and in 2024 42-34, and 3 all in 1900, so it moved to winning maybe sharing 2 thirds of the cups between them kore reehtly though it was only just over half in late 20th C, , at least, For league cups , 10-8 in 80, to Rangers, 22-12 in 02, and 28-21 in 2024. so Rangers League Cup domination was actually a post 1980 thing really, so the answer is, Rangers were not that dominant in Scottish cups before 1940, as they maybe bad luck slipped up in finals, but in League cup finals were dominant as more money and dominabce by bigger richer clubs, Old firm specially made them even more dominant. 

Other great non old firm Scottish wins over the Old Firm, include,

Celtic 0 St Mirren 4 in the 2000s, 

Hearts 5 Celtic 0 in the Tennents Sixes, a competition Hearts have loads of record wins in, and record scores in v other teams, 

Inverness 3 Rangers 0 in the Scottish Cup 2010s,

Rangers 0 Hibs 3 in the 2000s, Ivan Sproule hat trick 2005,  

1980s Aberdeen 4 Rangers 0 and St Mirren won 4-1, Aberdeen won 5 1 in 1985. 

2013 League Cup Forfar 2 Rangers 1, but a bankrupt Rangers so not surprising, and they broke the 4th tier crowd records very well, so unfair to mention this, 

And in 13 11 1983 as of a poor start Rangers were 8th in a 10 team league over 10 games into a 36 game season, but did well, and finished higher, 

 

And for this page that is now just simply right,.

The End. 

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